@eintaluj saidNow you're doing exactly what MB does. Just because there could be reports of Ukrainian war crimes, doesn't diminish the fact that there are reliable reports of Russian war crimes (or crimes against humanity).
What is "reliable report"? There are "reliable reports" that Ukraine committed war crimes and genocide in Donbas starting from 2014. Approximately 14 000 people were killed. There are also "reliable reports" that in the present Russia/Ukraine war, both sides have committed war crimes. Indeed, some cases are proven without doubt while the Western propaganda is completely silent about it.
@eintaluj saidYour neighbor committed a murder and needs to be punished. You are making excuses for injustice to uphold a double standard. Either hold all war criminals to account or hold none of them to account.
@Metal-Brain
There are actually two different things.
1) The US committed a war crime that is proved but the US remained unpunished. Russia allegedly committed a war crime that is still unproved, but Russia is to be sued in the ICC, and the sanctions are coming already.
Russia is right in saying that it is the "American exceptionalism", discriminative justice, sel ...[text shortened]... that your neighbour committed a murder, it does not follow that you are allowed to commit a murder.
@shavixmir saidReliable? Prove it.
Now you're doing exactly what MB does. Just because there could be reports of Ukrainian war crimes, doesn't diminish the fact that there are reliable reports of Russian war crimes (or crimes against humanity).
"At the UN, American primacy was reinforced through the creation of a Security Council, which alone has the power to authorize military action against a rogue state. The Security Council had five permanent members, each of whom was armed with a veto, meaning that no effective action against them could ever take place no matter what they had done. And so it has played out, with the US plus China, Russia, Britain and France being effectively immune from censure authorizing military action by the United Nations."
Thus, the following countries are immune from the UN-authorized military intervention:
- US;
- UK;
- France;
- Russia;
- China
"It is of particular interest to observe that the International Criminal Court (ICC) in the Hague was set up to deal with “war crimes and crimes against humanity” that were otherwise ignored. Neither the US, nor the Russians nor the Israelis recognize the authority of the court and the US has stated that no ICC investigator will be allowed entry into the United States."
Thus, the following countries are immune from the International Criminal Court:
- US;
- Russia;
- Israel.
To my knowledge, some countries can trial the war crimes, in the course of some international conventions, but the person accused must either be the citizen of that country or have committed the war crimes on the soil of that country.
Thus, it follows that the US cannot trial Putin for war crimes as Putin is neither the citizen of the US nor has he committed any war crimes in the US.
I have used the following article I recommend (but not every sentence from that article):
Philip Giraldi,
"Searching for War Criminals. They are nearer than you think,"
Global Research, 12 April 2022
https://www.globalresearch.ca/searching-war-criminals/5777286
@shavixmir saidDo not panic. My position is the following:
Now you're doing exactly what MB does. Just because there could be reports of Ukrainian war crimes, doesn't diminish the fact that there are reliable reports of Russian war crimes (or crimes against humanity).
1) In the Ukrainian and Western media, there are many reports of Russian war crimes in Ukraine, but I have seen only one report of the war crime committed against Russians.
2) In the Russian media and some alternative media, there are many reports of the war crimes committed by Ukrainians (both concerning the current war and the Donbas war), but I have seen none such reports in the Ukrainian or Western media (except one that concerns Georgian mercenaries in Ukraine).
3) Most of such reports cannot be independently and neutrally validated at the present moment.
4) Concerning the present war, there are some war crimes of Russians and also some war crimes of Ukrainians that can be neutrally and objectively validated right now. Often, the mainstream media has dismissed such things. Awful, that some leading Western news have indeed participated in some war crimes (for example, showing the videos of the war prisoners who are making political announcements - but it is a war crime as no one can be sure that the prisoner was not forced, compelled to make the statement).
So, I assert that both Russians and Ukrainians have committed war crimes in the present Russia/Ukraine war.
While the Western media has concentrated on Russians killing the civilians, the Russian media has concentrated on Ukrainian soldiers using civilians as a human shield (one of such case is proved beyond any reasonable doubt).
Sometimes, the proof comes easily. Someone thinks it a good idea to make a war propaganda and uploads a video of one's activities to some authenticated military channel. The person who is doing this does not realize that this video is a direct evidence of the war crime he has committed.
@eintaluj saidIt’s worth noting that the UNSC authorized the Korean War despite the USSR protesting. Not quite a veto override but…
"At the UN, American primacy was reinforced through the creation of a Security Council, which alone has the power to authorize military action against a rogue state. The Security Council had five permanent members, each of whom was armed with a veto, meaning that no effective action against them could ever take place no matter what they had done. And so it has played out, wi ...[text shortened]... nk,"
Global Research, 12 April 2022
https://www.globalresearch.ca/searching-war-criminals/5777286
@metal-brain saidFrom the moral point of view, murder is a murder and one should not commit a murder. What the others are doing does not take your moral responsibility.
Your neighbor committed a murder and needs to be punished. You are making excuses for injustice to uphold a double standard. Either hold all war criminals to account or hold none of them to account.
From the legal point of view, if selective processing is systematic, it is unjust. It is difficult to say, what follows from this. I admit only, that in some extreme cases, it is right to say that as one party has always remained unpunished, the other one should not be punished too. Or something like that.
From the pragmatic point of view, the US lasting exceptionalist policy simply leads to the effect that international laws and the ICC lose their credibility. People and countries cease to believe in them.
The law that remains systematically un-enforced, is actually not anymore a law.
@Metal-Brain
There are some reliable cases of the war crimes committed by Russian fighters from Donetsk Respublic. But these cases are not well known. I am talking about the videos they are showing on their military channels on Telegram. The channels are authenticated. The video itself is sometimes a sufficient proof, if it is authenticated. For example, forcing the war prisoners to make public political statements is a war crime.
@kevcvs57
Ukrainian security service SBU itself authenticated the video of the war crime. Shelling from near the civilian houses, the civilians were still living inside. It happened in Kyiv. It is called as using "human shield". It is a war crime as the counter-fire will probably hit the civilians.
One resident made a video from his balcony. The video became popular.
But the SBU arrested that man for making that video.
And Ukrainian newspaper Inforesist (and not some Russian news) published it.
So the video was authenticated.
It is a proof that at least once, Ukrainian army has used a human shield.
https://inforesist.org/sbu-nashla-tiktokera-kotoryj-vylozhil-v-soczseti-foto-s-voennoj-tehnikoj-vsu-u-tcz/
@vivify saidYou cannot prove anything with CNN or BBC either.
Here come the ZeroHedge and Rumble links.
The West and Russia are in fact in a war.
The information one side is publishing is not credible.
The labels "Russian propaganda" and "Western propaganda" both apply.
Whatever evidence from both sides has to be double-checked.
@athousandyoung saidWell, I do not understand such nuances. Perhaps Russia still says that that war was unauthorized.
It’s worth noting that the UNSC authorized the Korean War despite the USSR protesting. Not quite a veto override but…
@EintaluJ
You never answered a basic question: Are you ok with Putin attacking Ukraine starting in 2014? Was Putin justified grabbing Crimea? Are they justified attacking mainland Ukraine right now?
BTW, the western media is showing EXACTLY what the Russians did, do you deny they left bodies lying on the street where they were executed?
And if Ukrainians did some war crime, there couldn't be very many, but whole towns, whole CIVILIAN towns are bombed to total destruction, we saw that quite clearly.
Are you saying the total destruction of entire cities is ok because of some alleged Ukrainian war crimes? How much war crime activity could Ukraine actually do, considering the might of the Russian army, mainly using multiple missile attacks and we saw on that landed near the train station.
Do you think Ukrainians would launch their own missiles at their own people for some kind of propaganda victory?