Originally posted by Nemesio
Negative debates about RHP members do not belong on the RHP forums. We are a chess community and we should all get along without opening threads to bash, insult, intimidate and belittle other RHP members.
Yes, I agree. However this doesn't mean that people who initiate and support negative developments at the forums cannot be criticised anymore.
Originally posted by ivanhoeGood. Here goes. I think this would be a first step and obviously would not end every abortion, but I think this plan would have more potential than an outright ban on it.
I'm looking forward to your proposal to end abortion practise.
As abortion foes are primarily from the religious communities, this plan would involve their positive efforts. A denomination, church entity or an individual Christian would publicly invite women who desire an abortion to sign a legally binding document to 1) bring the child to term and delivery, 2) give up the child at time of birth to adoptive parents of the chosing of the church and 3) relinquish further rights to the child.
In exchange for this, the birth mother of the child would receive 1) free prenatal care, 2) paid expenses of delivery and hospital stay, 3) $10,000 (this is an arbitrary figure) and 4) a tubal ligation which would be paid for. This would ensure that she would not turn this into a money making venture.
OK, that's my proposal.
Originally posted by kirksey957Kirk: "This would ensure that she would not turn this into a money making venture."
Good. Here goes. I think this would be a first step and obviously would not end every abortion, but I think this plan would have more potential than an outright ban on it.
As abortion foes are primarily from the religious communities, this plan would involve their positive efforts. A denomination, church entity or an individual Christian would publi ...[text shortened]... uld ensure that she would not turn this into a money making venture.
OK, that's my proposal.
I'm not sure whether I understand what you're saying here ? Can you elaborate on that ?
Originally posted by ivanhoePeople that don't want children should not be having children. I do not know what kind of system you have there, but there are some people who "work the system" having more children so they can get more financial aid and assistance. I was trying to limit that kind of behavior by limiting their ability to reproduce.
Kirk: "This would ensure that she would not turn this into a money making venture."
I'm not sure whether I understand what you're saying here ? Can you elaborate on that ?
Originally posted by kirksey957What about bringing in birthing licences?
People that don't want children should not be having children. I do not know what kind of system you have there, but there are some people who "work the system" having more children so they can get more financial aid and assistance. I was trying to limit that kind of behavior by limiting their ability to reproduce.
Originally posted by StarrmanIf I had my way about it, you couldn't have children until you 've had a job for 2 years, had a commited relationship and been "approved" as a suitable potential parent, but life being what it is that will never happen. It doesn't take brains to screw.
What about bringing in birthing licences?
Originally posted by kirksey957I meant compared to your elaboarte plans for an alternative action on abortion, couldn't we just bring in brithing licences. Would it not be better to make it illegal to have children without authorisation, than to make the right to abort them even an issue?
If I had my way about it, you couldn't have children until you 've had a job for 2 years, had a commited relationship and been "approved" as a suitable potential parent, but life being what it is that will never happen. It doesn't take brains to screw.
Originally posted by StarrmanWouldn't birth licenses just increase abortions of illegitimate children?
I meant compared to your elaboarte plans for an alternative action on abortion, couldn't we just bring in brithing licences. Would it not be better to make it illegal to have children without authorisation, than to make the right to abort them even an issue?
Originally posted by ivanhoeI love how you justify your rationale for insulting people
Yes, I agree. However this doesn't mean that people who initiate and support negative developments at the forums cannot be criticised anymore.
while criticizing others for doing the same. You label
your insults as 'criticism.' Very clever.
Nemesio
Originally posted by lucifershammerLets just make it clear first that I'm not saying I support the idea of birthing licences, it is just a premise I'd like to entertain for the moment.
Wouldn't birth licenses just increase abortions of illegitimate children?
Now to answer your question, if abortion was made illegal then illegitimate abortions would rise in number, do you agree?.
However, if having a child in the first place was made illegal without the proper authorisation, I feel the amount of people who have children irresponsibly through a lack of education, or apathy about the reality of it would diminish. Yes there would still be illegal abortions and perhaps the percentage of pregnancy to abortion would still be similar, but I think the overall number of both would drop. So too would the population expansion, which I believe is a good thing in terms of resources.
However to bring in birthing licences, contraception would need to be made mandatory and I fear this would be even more intensely debated than abortion law.
Originally posted by kirksey957
Good. Here goes. I think this would be a first step and obviously would not end every abortion, but I think this plan would have more potential than an outright ban on it.
As abortion foes are primarily from the religious communities, this plan would involve their positive efforts. A denomination, church entity or an individual Christian would publi ...[text shortened]... uld ensure that she would not turn this into a money making venture.
OK, that's my proposal.
Why would you give her $10,000 ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeI would give her $10,000 if it were that important to me. But the money, to put it bluntly, is for services rendered. It is payment for carrying the child for 9 months, keeping her prenatal appointments, and a sign of commitment from the adopting party. Perhaps the adopting couple could receive some tax incentives as well. Again, the important thing I wish to convey is that there are tangible steps that could be taken to stop abortion that do not involve picketing or legal options.
Why would you give her $10,000 ?
It is very easy to say "Stop abortion as it is murder." It's kind of like walking to the animal shelter and seeing a cute little puppy and you know they are going to euthanize it. "It's terrible" you say. You adopt the puppy and take it home to save its life. The puppy rewards you by peeing all over the house. It keeps you up all night. It has worms and the vet bill is going to be $200. You feel like taking it back to the animal shelter. Yep, it takes commitment.
OK, who's up to adopt a baby? What ? no Jerry Falwell or James Dobson? Wait, what are all these gay and lesbian couples lining up for? More power to them.
Originally posted by kirksey957
I would give her $10,000 if it were that important to me. But the money, to put it bluntly, is for services rendered. It is payment for carrying the child for 9 months, keeping her prenatal appointments, and a sign of commitment from the adopting party. Perhaps the adopting couple could receive some tax incentives as well. Again, the important thing I ...[text shortened]... es Dobson? Wait, what are all these gay and lesbian couples lining up for? More power to them.
I agree with you that other options besides abortion should be more available for pregnant women in distress. Your proposal could be a starting point for discussing these possibilities.
Of course educating people should also be a realistic option. Abortion is often seen as a problem solely related to women. However it is also related to for instance the "macho" stance many men take in communities, their absence in family affairs, their lack of being able to take up their responsabilities. Women often feel abandoned, especially after being left by their partner and relatives and after that being confronted with a society that shows the same indifference towards her problems and gives her the advice to kill her child to solve her problems.
Abortion is a societal problem that necessarily emerges at a crossroads of cultural notions, social and moral indifferences that need change desperately.