Why just Student Debt: Why not other debts?

@averagejoe1 said
An honest answer, Marauder....you asked me that earlier? OK, an honest answer from you would be that, YES, the government should forgive all medical bills. And it is laughable that you would (probably) follow with ....".....except for people who have made enough money to pay their medical bills." Methinks the next generation would say, " Hell, I think I will not mak ...[text shortened]... ny money, or be successful, if the govt would pay my meds....AND my tuition???"

Geez O Petey...

There's no honesty in any of your posts, AJ.

IF your objection is really that student debts should be treated no differently from other debts (as your OP implies), then the simple solution would be to amend the Bankruptcy Code to no longer impose special rules on student loan debt which make it much harder to discharge in bankruptcy.

But that isn't the game you and QQ are playing.

@no1marauder said
There's no honesty in any of your posts, AJ.

IF your objection is really that student debts should be treated no differently from other debts (as your OP implies), then the simple solution would be to amend the Bankruptcy Code to no longer impose special rules on student loan debt which make it much harder to discharge in bankruptcy.

But that isn't the game you and QQ are playing.

Yeah, that would be an answer for sure. Good stuff. Whew.
Does this answer the question Marauder? Jesus H!!
Can’t believe you followed the jimmmmm reasoning about bankruptcy, whatever for. Pitiful. And it was an easy question. You can wrap this post up if you’d like. Knowing the question would not be answered, i started it with an empty post on page one.
I’m about to post another question, stay tuned.

@no1marauder said
The program is essentially an anti-poverty program with income limits. Your objections are to the very basis of the program, not merely to proposals to forgive part or all of existing debt under it.

You should just be honest and say so.

The capitalist system shouldn't decide kid A is a "winner" and kid B a "loser" because kid A's parents have a lot more money than kid B's.

The program is objectionable because people who pay upfront literally get no benefit from the program. People who take loans get the benefit of their education without having to keeping their pre-agreed end of the bargain to back the loan. Furthermore tax payers including disproportionately those who paid their tuition but are denied reimbursement are asked to pick up the bill. Lets not have programs that reward only the low quality humans who default on their loans and give the bills to the ones who deserve it the most -- those who actually already paid for their education.

@sonhouse said
@AverageJoe1
You seem to be saying there is no upside to helping student load debt.
So some Phd has a student loan of a quarter million and suppose he can't get hired for whatever reason, gummint don't care he isn't working, they want their money now.
What part of the idea of paying off those loans is an investment in our future is repugnant to you?

Why are people who paid their tuition upfront treated differently than those who took loans? The fair thing to do is (1) everyone gets their money back or (2) people who took loans are told to pay their freaking loans back as they agreed.

@quackquack said
Why are people who paid their tuition upfront treated differently than those who took loans? The fair thing to do is (1) everyone gets their money back or (2) people who took loans are told to pay their freaking loans back as they agreed.

You're saying either everyone gets their debts forgiven or no one should There's over a trillion dollars in student debt as we're speaking, and that's an incredibly selfish position to have.

Furthermore, learn the difference between government and bank loans. Most bank loans are not government loans. Most student loans are government loans, which the government can forgive.

@vivify said
You're saying either everyone gets their debts forgiven or no one should There's over a trillion dollars in student debt as we're speaking, and that's an incredibly selfish position to have.

Furthermore, learn the difference between government and bank loans. Most bank loans are not government loans. Most student loans are government loans, which the government can forgive.

Why the distinction between govt and bank loans? And, as you say 'the govt can forgive', a bank can forgive also. So, don't get you there.
I appreciate your thought-out reasonable response here, but am curious as to what you mean by 'selfish position'? And yes, I myself am saying that either everyone have the forgiveness, or no one should. Again, why distinguish?

@quackquack said
Why are people who paid their tuition upfront treated differently than those who took loans? The fair thing to do is (1) everyone gets their money back or (2) people who took loans are told to pay their freaking loans back as they agreed.

How can there POSSIBLY be an argument against this concept ?

@no1marauder said
There's no honesty in any of your posts, AJ.

IF your objection is really that student debts should be treated no differently from other debts (as your OP implies), then the simple solution would be to amend the Bankruptcy Code to no longer impose special rules on student loan debt which make it much harder to discharge in bankruptcy.

But that isn't the game you and QQ are playing.

what “special” rules do you speak of?

@no1marauder said
No, you don't have to show "undue hardship" to get other debts discharged in bankruptcy. There is a special test required to discharge student loans not applicable to other debt:

"The bankruptcy courts do not use a single test to determine undue hardship but may look at the following factors to determine whether requiring you to repay your loans would cause an undue ha ...[text shortened]... efore filing bankruptcy."

https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/bankruptcy

“ No, you don't have to show "undue hardship" to get other debts discharged in bankruptcy. “

explain…which bankruptcy can you receive without proving undue hardship?

did you understand the words you posted?

“ There is evidence that this hardship will continue for a significant portion of the loan repayment period”

@averagejoe1 said
Why the distinction between govt and bank loans? And, as you say 'the govt can forgive', a bank can forgive also. So, don't get you there.

The government (in theory) is supposed to listen to its citizens; private businesses don't have to. Therefore it makes more sense to petition the government for loan forgiveness.

I appreciate your thought-out reasonable response here, but am curious as to what you mean by 'selfish position'? And yes, I myself am saying that either everyone have the forgiveness, or no one should.

It's better to help some people than to help no one, right? If firefighters can't save everyone from a burning building, should they let everyone die to keep it fair? What if you can't feed every homeless person? What if a hospital can't treat every sick patient?

If you can't help everyone, at least start with who you can help.

@vivify said
The government (in theory) is supposed to listen to its citizens; private businesses don't have to. Therefore it makes more sense to petition the government for loan forgiveness.

[b]I appreciate your thought-out reasonable response here, but am curious as to what you mean by 'selfish position'? And yes, I myself am saying that either everyone have the forgiveness, or no o ...[text shortened]... n't treat every sick patient?

If you can't help everyone, at least start with who you can help.

Very good, 3 thumbs up.

@vivify said
You're saying either everyone gets their debts forgiven or no one should There's over a trillion dollars in student debt as we're speaking, and that's an incredibly selfish position to have.

Furthermore, learn the difference between government and bank loans. Most bank loans are not government loans. Most student loans are government loans, which the government can forgive.

Either the government picks up the tab for tuition or it doesn't. It can write off a loan or it can send a reimbursement check. There is no valid reason to treat the situations differently.

@vivify said
The government (in theory) is supposed to listen to its citizens; private businesses don't have to. Therefore it makes more sense to petition the government for loan forgiveness.

[b]I appreciate your thought-out reasonable response here, but am curious as to what you mean by 'selfish position'? And yes, I myself am saying that either everyone have the forgiveness, or no o ...[text shortened]... n't treat every sick patient?

If you can't help everyone, at least start with who you can help.

I do not disagree, of course, but your post begs the question, do you say that the govt would have different parameters qualifications, of the situation of the debtor than the bank would? Would not the bank consider the same facts that the govt would, which puts us back to Point A?

Secondly, given your comments, if the govt or bank forgives a student debt, how can that be more important than a $100K medical bill of another citizen? This is the crux of this thread, and everyone here is dancing around it.

@vivify said
The government (in theory) is supposed to listen to its citizens; private businesses don't have to. Therefore it makes more sense to petition the government for loan forgiveness.

[b]I appreciate your thought-out reasonable response here, but am curious as to what you mean by 'selfish position'? And yes, I myself am saying that either everyone have the forgiveness, or no o ...[text shortened]... n't treat every sick patient?

If you can't help everyone, at least start with who you can help.

People who pay tuition without government loans are no less citizens than those who had loans. To give a benefit to one without the other is flat out unjustified.

@averagejoe1 said
I do not disagree, of course, but your post begs the question, do you say that the govt would have different parameters qualifications, of the situation of the debtor than the bank would? Would not the bank consider the same facts that the govt would, which puts us back to Point A?

Secondly, given your comments, if the govt or bank forgives a student debt, how can that ...[text shortened]... bill of another citizen? This is the crux of this thread, and everyone here is dancing around it.

If it is a $100K medical bill, that you
are unable to pay, you file for bankruptcy.
.............hello?