Originally posted by Red NightHow can belief create existence? And if the existence is created by belief, will it outlast belief (i.e. if people stop believing, will that belief-created God still exist)?
Voltaire once said that, "If God did not exist, man would have to invent him"
That leaves us two options:
1. God exists in some ethereal form
OR
2. Man's belief in God creates existence.
But either way, for good or ill, God exists.
Originally posted by NordlysTo the latter point, I think the answer is no.
How can belief create existence? And if the existence is created by belief, will it outlast belief (i.e. if people stop believing, will that belief-created God still exist)?
To your first point, let me respond with a question:
How many acts of kindness, how many acts of cruelty have been wrought in the name of God?
Originally posted by Red NightI'm sorry but this is not proof that god exists. How can it be tested?
Voltaire once said that, "If God did not exist, man would have to invent him"
That leaves us two options:
1. God exists in some ethereal form
OR
2. Man's belief in God creates existence.
But either way, for good or ill, God exists.
you missed out:
3. Voltaire talked rubbish.
That said i half agree with him, i believe we (a species) have invented gods(and an after life) because we fear death. Our ego's just cannot accept that we cease to exist.
P.s. am i being patronising yet? Wheres my soap box?😉
Originally posted by Red NightLots. To me, that only shows that beliefs motivate people to do things, but it doesn't show that the things they believe in actually exist.
To the latter point, I think the answer is no.
To your first point, let me respond with a question:
How many acts of kindness, how many acts of cruelty have been wrought in the name of God?
Originally posted by jonrothwellThere really isn't an option 3, as described by you.
I'm sorry but this is not proof that god exists. How can it be tested?
you missed out:
3. Voltaire talked rubbish.
That said i half agree with him, i believe we (a species) have invented gods(and an after life) because we fear death. Our ego's just cannot accept that we cease to exist.
P.s. am i being patronising yet? Wheres my soap box?😉
Either God exists or We invented him.
Voltaire being full of rubbish doesn't add another option.
I don't care if you agree or not, you're agreement or disagreement doesn't change the fundamental truth in those options.
BTW, there is a third option, but I don't think you'll like it; God exists AND we invented him/them/her/it.
Originally posted by Red NightThe question is whether invention creates existence, or whether it just creates an idea or concept. I'd say the latter.
There really isn't an option 3, as described by you.
Either God exists or We invented him.
Voltaire being full of rubbish doesn't add another option.
I don't care if you agree or not, you're agreement or disagreement doesn't change the fundamental truth in those options.
BTW, there is a third option, but I don't think you'll like it; God exists AND we invented him/them/her/it.
Originally posted by Red Nightok, i see your point.
There really isn't an option 3, as described by you.
Either God exists or We invented him.
Voltaire being full of rubbish doesn't add another option.
I don't care if you agree or not, you're agreement or disagreement doesn't change the fundamental truth in those options.
BTW, there is a third option, but I don't think you'll like it; God exists AND we invented him/them/her/it.
lets say we invented 'god'. That doesn't mean it exists, just that we believe it exists.
if i invent a god to worship it doesn't mean the god is real just real to me. Or that i am living a lie.
Originally posted by NordlysYou're arguing semantics.
Lots. To me, that only shows that beliefs motivate people to do things, but it doesn't show that the things they believe in actually exist.
When Mother Theresa fed the poor of India in the name of God, did the food not exist?
When Godfrey of Bouillon slew the "Infidels" so that their blood flowed down the streets of Jerusalm up to the third ankle joint of horses, did the blood not exist?
When Mohammed Atta screamed "allah akbar" as his plane slammed into the side of the world trade center, did the plane not exist?
All of these people viewed themselves as instruments of God. They all did things in his/her/its name. It is hard for me to imagine more palpable proof of existence than that.
Originally posted by jonrothwellBut doesn't belief in existence on some level create existence?
ok, i see your point.
lets say we invented 'god'. That doesn't mean it exists, just that we believe it exists.
if i invent a god to worship it doesn't mean the god is real just real to me. Or that i am living a lie.
Originally posted by Nordlysscience as a whole is proof that belief creates existence...
How can belief create existence? And if the existence is created by belief, will it outlast belief (i.e. if people stop believing, will that belief-created God still exist)?
gravity is a belief that creates answers to some problems that we had to figure, so we invented gravity as a means to explain all of these things
I personally believe differently from what I am about to say, just to make that clear
given this example, we would then create God to explain existence and other such things...
we "created" the Adam and Eve story to explain original sin and why humans behave sinfully on occasion
that is how belief leads to creation