Brexit reflections so far

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
This has been refuted, devolving a full range of powers does not necessitate that it will translate to any kind of tangible benefit and furthermore it can be argued that the EU would have spent money on initiatives that the UK government would not have or been reluctant to.

So is your definition of "tangible benefit" solely about money? You need to define "tangible benefit". You raised the term. You should say what you mean by it.

Originally posted by FMF
The devolving of power restores actual control over aspects of the decision-making and policy setting process and outcomes. This is very real. It's also huge. For those supporting this devolution, these consequences are, of course, benefits.

Its been refuted and an example given (EU money for the suppiort of Gaelic) in which the EU has served the interests of the UK better than the UK government. You have yet to provide a single instance where devolution has benefited the UK.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
pleas see the above post, the analogy was to demonstrate that devolved power is not always beneficial as you seemed to be claiming, it was not an analogy of the British people as you have attempted to insinuate. Oh dear.

What did the reference to the "vulnerable child" and "social services" have to do with the U.K. and its relationship with Europe?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Its been refuted and an example given (EU money for the suppiort of Gaelic) in which the EU has served the interests of the UK better than the UK government. You have yet to provide a single instance where devolution has benefited the UK.

So for you does "tangible benefits" mean money and grants?

Originally posted by FMF
What did the reference to the "vulnerable child" and "social services" have to do with the U.K. and its relationship with Europe?

It was an analogy to do with the devolving of power. I have already explained it and will not do so again.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You have yet to provide a single instance where devolution has benefited the UK.

Do you mean I need to offer you a single instance of where devolution has benefited the UK in the last 6 days?

Originally posted by FMF
So for you does "tangible benefits" mean money and grants?

It can mean many things, money, grants, initiatives, projects, private research etc etc

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It was an analogy to do with the devolving of power. I have already explained it and will not do so again.

But it's good for parents to have 'power' over their children though and not social services, right?

Originally posted by FMF
Do you mean I need to offer you a single instance of where devolution has benefited the UK in the last 6 days?

You have stated that devolution is a tangible benefit in itself, you have no concrete examples to back up the claim?

Originally posted by FMF
But it's good for parents to have 'power' over their children though and not social services, right?

Is it?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It can mean many things, money, grants, initiatives, projects, private research etc etc

Political autonomy, freedom to act, agenda setting, national priorities, policy enactment, decision making, democratic control, democratic responsiveness... Are these things also among the "many things"?

FMF: But it's good for parents to have 'power' over their children though and not social services, right?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Is it?

Sure. Of course. Do you think control of all children should be centralized with social services or do you think parents should have control of their own children?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Simply calling it a tangible benefit does not make it so any more than sending a vulnerable child from the care of social services back to its natural parents enhances their ability to look after the childs welfare.

If the parents did not approve of the way social services were raising their child and managed to regain custody, and the child moved back with the parents, and the child was happy about this, that would be a benefit to the parents and their child, right?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Its been refuted and an example given (EU money for the suppiort of Gaelic) in which the EU has served the interests of the UK better than the UK government.

What exactly is it that you think "EU money for the support of Gaelic" refutes?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You have stated that devolution is a tangible benefit in itself, you have no concrete examples to back up the claim?

The power is tangible. It is real. If it is devolved ~ i.e. restored ~ then it is concentrated where the majority of the electorate want it, This is clearly a benefit to those who wanted to see an end of that political control being dissipated or transferred away from where they could exert influence on it. This is tangible.