Originally posted by PalynkaHow is including domestic competitions comparable?
My mediocre club has won as much as you in Europe and more Internationally. This is the only stage where they both compete together and therefore the only valid one for comparison. Face it, you just aren't as good as you think.
It's comparable because, like your statement re European success, it would be factually incorrect.
please, work on your logical skills because they seriously need an update if you want to have a bare minimum of consistency.
Says the man, who claims that United aren't as good this season as I claim because Porto have more international honours than them historically? LOL!
D
1 edit
Originally posted by RagnorakNo, Rag. It's not comparable because both teams have different access to them. What part of that did you not understand?
[b]How is including domestic competitions comparable?
It's comparable because, like your statement re European success, it would be factually incorrect.
please, work on your logical skills because they seriously need an update if you want to have a bare minimum of consistency.
Says the man, who claims that United aren't as good this season as I claim because Porto have more international honours than them historically? LOL!
D[/b]
Says the man, who claims that United aren't as good this season as I claim because Porto have more international honours than them historically?
Where exactly do I talk about this season, muppet?
Originally posted by PalynkaNow,now, no name calling. 😀
No, Rag. It's not comparable because both teams have different access to them. What part of that did you not understand?
[b]Says the man, who claims that United aren't as good this season as I claim because Porto have more international honours than them historically?
Where exactly do I talk about this season, muppet?[/b]
Originally posted by PalynkaOf course it's comparable. Being completely factually incorrect is a trait that both statements share. If you wanted to claim that the moon was made of cheese, that claim would also be comparable in that it is also completely incorrect.
No, Rag. It's not comparable because both teams have different access to them. What part of that did you not understand?
[b]Says the man, who claims that United aren't as good this season as I claim because Porto have more international honours than them historically?
Where exactly do I talk about this season, muppet?[/b]
Where exactly do I talk about this season, muppet
"Face it, you just aren't as good as you think."
aren't = present tense. Also, I took into consideration the fact that this discussion evolved from my appraisal of the experience of the current United squad, which you claimed lacked experience.
I didn't realise that when I discuss the merits of the current United squad in a thread entitled "Champions League 2007/2008", you'd compare them to the Porto squad of 87/88, 03/04 and 04/05, and comment on how good United were historically. If that's how your logic works, then apologies for the misunderstanding. I'll try to take into account the convoluted and unpredictable logical workings of your mind in future football discussions.
D
Originally posted by RagnorakYou didn't address my point. I'll repeat in case you're slow:
Of course it's comparable. Being completely factually incorrect is a trait that both statements share. If you wanted to claim that the moon was made of cheese, that claim would also be comparable in that it is also completely incorrect.
[b]Where exactly do I talk about this season, muppet
"Face it, you just aren't as good as you think."
...[text shortened]... and unpredictable logical workings of your mind in future football discussions.
D[/b]
It's not comparable because both teams have different access to them. What part of that did you not understand?
aren't = present tense.
Well, yes, of course I used present tense. The club still exists, doesn't it? This tangent started when you dismissed Pepe because he came from Porto. As opposed to giants, Red Star Belgrade, but again you can't see the irony. Or you can, but are a hypocrite.
But it's funny how you completely lack footballing arguments and resort to verb tenses and ridiculous comparisons (e.g. moon made of cheese). Will I ever have to face some substantive arguments from you?
1 edit
Originally posted by RagnorakDouble post
Of course it's comparable. Being completely factually incorrect is a trait that both statements share. If you wanted to claim that the moon was made of cheese, that claim would also be comparable in that it is also completely incorrect.
[b]Where exactly do I talk about this season, muppet
"Face it, you just aren't as good as you think."
and unpredictable logical workings of your mind in future football discussions.
D[/b]
Originally posted by PalynkaWith this post, I realise that you are just wasting my time for the sake of it. This is my last post regarding these points.
You didn't address my point. I'll repeat in case you're slow:
It's not comparable because both teams have different access to them. What part of that did you not understand?
[b]aren't = present tense.
Well, yes, of course I used present tense. The club still exists, doesn't it? This tangent started when you dismissed Pepe because he came fro ...[text shortened]... e.g. moon made of cheese). Will I ever have to face some substantive arguments from you?[/b]
we have MORE European titles than your precious Manchester.
cue lame correction by Rag that the last one isn't European.
Manchester United have won 75 European trophies. Now, please don't be lame and point out to me just how factually incorrect I am. Apparently, we can now claim whatever we want. 🙄
This tangent started when you dismissed Pepe because he came from Porto. As opposed to giants, Red Star Belgrade, but again you can't see the irony. Or you can, but are a hypocrite.
Incorrect, I dismissed Pepe because he has no international record to speak of and can't make a top team, as I previously stated. BTW, Vidic came from Spartak Moscow, but sorry for being lame and correcting your made up, inaccurate points.
But it's funny how you completely lack footballing arguments and resort to verb tenses and ridiculous comparisons (e.g. moon made of cheese).
When somebody says "Where exactly do I talk about this season, muppet?", then I'm "resorting to verb tenses" when I respond and point out exactly where it was said? 🙄
Will I ever have to face some substantive arguments from you?
You may want to go back to page 4, where I responded to your claim that some United players lacked experience of knockout stages of the CL with...
"Of course some of the players lack experience, but not players that you'd hope would be starting the more important knock-out games.
Van Der Sar - Champions League winner. Most caps for a Dutch player
G. Neville - Champions League winner. Numerous appearences in Semis and Quarter Finals.
Ferdinand - 10 WC appearences. Numerous apps in CL quarters and semis.
Vidic - May lack proven experience, but makes up for it with defensive brilliance.
Evra - Played in a Champions League Final with Monaco.
Ronaldo - I agree with you on this one. Has never excelled against a top team, but has improved hugely year on year so far.
Scholes - Numerous appearences in CL Semis and Quarters. Champions League winner by default. Got United to 99 final.
Hargreaves - CL winner with Munich.
Giggs - CL winner.
Rooney - Appearences in CL quarters and semis. Has played in top International tournaments.
Tevez - May lack experience of big CL games. Has excelled in hugely important games for Boca, Corinthians and Argentina.
And look at the backup players...
Brown -In squad for CL final win.
Park - CL semi appearence with PSV (as their best player in the tournament). WC appearences.
Carrick - 13 International appearences inc WC. CL quarter final experience.
Saha - French International with experience in advanced stages of CL.
Silvestre and O Shea both have huge amounts of experience (with not much talent admittedly)
Fletcher - Captain of Scotland. Numerous appearences in CL knock out stages.
Sure, the likes of Anderson, Pique, Nani and Simpson are raw, but the talent is there (especially in Anderson who I boldly predict now will battle with Fabregas for the next 10 years for the accolade of best Midfielder in the world) and things would have to be pretty dire on the injuries front for us to need to rely on the latter 3.
I honestly think you'd struggle to find a squad with better experience while retaining the excitement and stamina of youth! "
to which you replied... "w)"
But then, I'm the hypocrite, incapable of substantive football debate. Now do you care to state exactly how a squad with such huge amounts of CL knockout experience lacks CL knockout experience, IYHO 🙄
D
Originally posted by RagnorakYou do realize that we are on a different discussion now? The one about you not exchanging Vidic for anyone else?
With this post, I realise that you are just wasting my time for the sake of it. This is my last post regarding these points.
[b]we have MORE European titles than your precious Manchester.
cue lame correction by Rag that the last one isn't European.
Manchester United have won 75 European trophies. Now, please don't be lame and point out t ...[text shortened]... ge amounts of CL knockout experience lacks CL knockout experience, IYHO 🙄
D[/b]
So why do you bring substantive arguments from another discussion as a proof you've provided substantive arguments to this one? It's pathetic.
I admitted in my edit that I should have written International rather than European. And you keep harping on about it as if it wasn't true that Porto is factually more successful in the international stage than MU. Moreover, these successes are more recent than MU's.
It's sad, really, that you continue to see MU in such delusional light.
As for the verb tense it was correct. You just read things that aren't there. Things like "this season". It simply wasn't there not implicitely nor explicitely. Again, sad.
Originally posted by PalynkaIt's sad, really, that you continue to see MU in such delusional light.
You do realize that we are on a different discussion now? The one about you not exchanging Vidic for anyone else?
So why do you bring substantive arguments from another discussion as a proof you've provided substantive arguments to this one? It's pathetic.
I admitted in my edit that I should have written International rather than European. And you keep ...[text shortened]... like "this season". It simply wasn't there not implicitely nor explicitely. Again, sad.
Where have I said that United are historically better than anybody? As I stated previously, historical success is irrelevant to me when discussing the merits of current squads in a thread entitled "Champions League 2007/2008" and comparing 2 players, 1 starring in a big league and internationally and 1 who has played well in a poor league, and is a failure so far in a big league.
[b]You just read things that aren't there. [/b[
Ironic isn't it considering the above. Also, you have repeatedly referred to Porto as a "mediocre club". You really shouldn't be so tough on them. Unless of course, you're reading things which aren't there and are insinuating that I called Porto a mediocre club?
I really don't understand your logic when you state that "United aren't as good as you think" (paraphrasing as I'm too bored of the discussion to look it up) and then say that you're talking about the totally irrelevant history of the club going back to the 1960s in a thread entitled "Champions League 2007/2008" in a discussion about a current player. Pardon me for putting 2 and 2 together and getting 4.
D
1 edit
Originally posted by RagnorakMore accurately you added 2 and 2 and concluded 5.
[b]It's sad, really, that you continue to see MU in such delusional light.
Where have I said that United are historically better than anybody? As I stated previously, historical success is irrelevant to me when discussing the merits of current squads in a thread entitled "Champions League 2007/2008" and comparing 2 players, 1 starring in a big league a current player. Pardon me for putting 2 and 2 together and getting 4.
D[/b]
Also, you referred that Pepe isn't good because he came from a mediocre league. Obviously, that argument is only valid if the mediocrity extends to Porto, where he comes from.
This is the mentality I'm arguing against. This dismissal of other leagues that contain clubs that are as, or even more, successful as United. It's the typical steretype of an United fan. I you fit in it quite nicely.
Originally posted by PalynkaHighly infuriating, the way you take inaccurate interpretations of my comments and stick to them religiously.
More accurately you added 2 and 2 and concluded 5.
Also, you referred that Pepe isn't good because he came from a mediocre league. Obviously, that argument is only valid if the mediocrity extends to Porto, where he comes from.
This is the mentality I'm arguing against. This dismissal of other leagues that contain clubs that are as, or even more, successful as United. It's the typical steretype of an United fan. I you fit in it quite nicely.
My exact comment-
You'd swap a record breaking proven player for a player who did well in the mediocre Portuguese League and currently can't get into the Madrid team? More parochial bias.
Also, you referred that Pepe isn't good because he came from a mediocre league. Obviously, that argument is only valid if the mediocrity extends to Porto, where he comes from.
How's that? Surely, the level of his performance takes into account his opponents as opposed to his teammates? Again inaccurate interpretations, faulty logic and reading what isn't written.
Do you honestly believe that the Portuguese league is as strong as the Spanish and English leagues?
Would Pepe be playing against better players day in and day out playing in the Portuguese league for Porto or (like Vidic) for Manchester United?
If Porto, then what Portuguese teams have attacking players like Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Portsmouth, Newcastle, etc?
Is it fair to say that Pepe hasn't proven anything playing at Real, unlike Vidic who was instrumental in last years successful United squad?
Was I unfair in referring to the Portuguese League as a feeder league? If you believe this isn't true, why is it that practically all of the young players are sold to other leagues, and why the majority of the current Portuguese squad are playing outside of Portugal (bar young prospects, fringe players and aged players who have returned to their native country to retire)?
So what if Portugal have 1 or 2 decent teams? The league is generally brutal to watch as a neutral and fan of football like myself.
D
1 edit
Originally posted by RagnorakHighly infuriating, the way you take inaccurate interpretations of my comments and stick to them religiously.[/b]
Highly infuriating, the way you take inaccurate interpretations of my comments and stick to them religiously.
My exact comment-
You'd swap a record breaking proven player for a player who did well in the mediocre Portuguese League and currently can't get into the Madrid team? More parochial bias.
[b]Also, you referred that Pepe isn't good because he league is generally brutal to watch as a neutral and fan of football like myself.
D
It's a logical deduction from your comments. Again you seem to have problems with it. And it's surprising that in the words that follow you actually reinforce the same interpretation.
You'd swap a record breaking proven player for a player who did well in the mediocre Portuguese League and currently can't get into the Madrid team? More parochial bias.
The parochial bias is deciding without ever watching the player. How many games of Pepe have you seen?
Surely, the level of his performance takes into account his opponents as opposed to his teammates?
Yes. But we did play in the CL. Apart from the first game against Arsenal (when our team was still being built) we played extremely well in the CL. We dominated Arsenal at Porto and only the post saved them. Twice. We only were eliminated by Chelsea on a very very tight game. Pepe was instrumental in our good performance in Europe.
Pepe also arrived at Real not that long ago, so it's unsurprising he hasn't proven anything. We're still in the first half of his first season there. He's also two years younger than Vidic.
1 edit
Originally posted by Ragnorak4 against Porto - previously unbeaten this season. Watchable enough for you yet? Take a look over your Premiership shoulder, if we win our game in hand we go ahead of you. Unbeaten in the league and still involved in all competitions too (unlike your lot). Not bad for a "half decent" team.
In fairness to Liverpool, they actually tried to pass the ball last night.
But to be honest Boy, watching a half decent team hammering a totally rubbish team isn't my idea of brilliant.
I guess if I'd have been watching Liverpool as a fan all season, with their inability to pass/defend/attack, I'd be fairly excited too.
D
Originally posted by Angry BoyCome on! Porto? That's like boasting about beating Wigan.
4 against Porto - previously unbeaten this season. Watchable enough for you yet? Take a look over your Premiership shoulder, if we win our game in hand we go ahead of you. Unbeaten in the league and still involved in all competitions too (unlike your lot). Not bad for a "half decent" team.
Tell you what, get back to me when you've actually qualified for the knockout round.
D