Originally posted by darvlayI guess... it was kind of mixed up. Also, why would your father just come and whack you without trying to figure out what was going on?
OK, he was abusive. Better?
Do you think Crowley is a bad father? That's where I came in. Not all spanking is battering, I could be wrong but I don't imagine Crowley is whacking his kids for no reason and that sounds like what you got.
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Originally posted by PhlabibitBecause he was impatient, as I said twice.
I guess... it was kind of mixed up. Also, why would your father just come and whack you without trying to figure out what was going on?
Do you think Crowley is a bad father? That's where I came in. Not all spanking is battering, I could be wrong but I don't imagine Crowley is whacking his kids for no reason and that sounds like what you got.
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I think if Crowley made a conscious decision to hit his children because his Dad did the same to him and it was all wonderful how he turned out then I think that's back-ass-wards and, yes, it's bad parenting.
For my Dad, it was a crutch. He didn't have to figure out the what and the why, he'd just yell something in Korean and I would run. He was impatient and he thought it was normal because in his day, it was. He didn't stop to think that maybe his family before him were as bad as he was.
Originally posted by darvlayI understand your point of view, Darv, but I think the "discipline" your father handed out was not the type we were talking about.
I read what a lot of you were saying about smacking kids and how it's okay to do it once and a while and "not so hard" (that's a laugh). And then I read about Crowley being all proud that his Dad hit him once and a while. I nearly threw up in my mouth.
My Dad used to discipline me a lot when I was young. I didn't get the switch, or the belt, or the pad ...[text shortened]... o his children, it would have made HIM a better person.
Think about that.
For me, spanking was never about intimidation. It's about getting their attention focused on the next moment where they need to get reasonable. There are times when kids are totally out of control with dramatics and that's often when they are toddlers. Sometimes they repeat this behavior in their older years.
Now, when I teach my kids a lesson I think they need to feel it emotionally more than anything. When they do something shameful, I make them feel ashamed. When they do something morally wrong or cruel to someone, I make them understand that such behavior is unacceptable and they should be thinking about their actions. Nowadays, nobody wants to hurt their kids feelings or make them feel they are bad. It's bs. But I don't get there by spanking them. That lesson comes when they are ready to listen.
Raising kids is complicated and hard work. I don't think Crowley is wrong when he relates his own personal experience and I don't think he's knocking his kid around.
Some cultures have their own rules that they find acceptable and you cannot change that. Your father may have been one of those people. But there's what you experienced and that is a different, but common, thing. Many of us did.
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Originally posted by darvlayspanking itself is not a sign of impatience. Skillful parents use it only as a last resort, or in special circumstances. If you spank a child, after an appropriate amount of time a discussion needs to happen about the behavior being corrected (and I don't mean yelling at the kid).
Because he was impatient, as I said twice.
I think if Crowley made a conscious decision to hit his children because his Dad did the same to him and it was all wonderful how he turned out then I think that's back-ass-wards and, yes, it's bad parenting.
For my Dad, it was a crutch. He didn't have to figure out the what and the why, he'd just yell someth ...[text shortened]... y, it was. He didn't stop to think that maybe his family before him were as bad as he was.
Spanking can a useful tool in the parents nurturing of a child, but one must never use an axe when a scalpel will do.
Originally posted by duecerI'm sorry, as much as it pains me to say it, and ignoring his zeal on the issue, I'm with VR on this. There is no such thing as skillful use of hitting. Skill is when you avoid doing it in favour of reason or any other form of non-contact discipline. If you can't discipline your child without hitting them, it's not the child that's the problem. And the notion of spanking being part of nurturing is about the most stupid assertion I've heard this year.
spanking itself is not a sign of impatience. Skillful parents use it only as a last resort, or in special circumstances. If you spank a child, after an appropriate amount of time a discussion needs to happen about the behavior being correected (and I don't mean yelling at the kid).
Spanking can a useful tool in the parents nurturing of a child, but one must never use an axe when a scalpel will do.
Hitting a kid under any disciplinary circumstances is an excuse for not being a better parent.
Originally posted by Phlabibiti wuz in tha same boat wit badwater...
When your father told you to go out back and cut a switch, what was worse?
Walking outside with a knife looking for a proper branch to cut and skin in anticipation of the whup'n you were going to get?
or
The whup'n?
Discuss
when dad lost it, and i wuz gonna git hit, tha belt came off right NOW...
no having to think about tha punishment to come...
which, in retrospect, may be just az bad az tha punishment...
rookie
Originally posted by StarrmanWOW!~
I'm sorry, as much as it pains me to say it, and ignoring his zeal on the issue, I'm with VR on this. There is no such thing as skillful use of hitting. Skill is when you avoid doing it in favour of reason or any other form of non-contact discipline. If you can't discipline your child without hitting them, it's not the child that's the problem. And the ...[text shortened]... ing a kid under any disciplinary circumstances is an excuse for not being a better parent.
There are so many conflicting views on this!
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Originally posted by darvlayyou challenge your DAD?!?!
I read what a lot of you were saying about smacking kids and how it's okay to do it once and a while and "not so hard" (that's a laugh). And then I read about Crowley being all proud that his Dad hit him once and a while. I nearly threw up in my mouth.
My Dad used to discipline me a lot when I was young. I didn't get the switch, or the belt, or the pad ...[text shortened]... o his children, it would have made HIM a better person.
Think about that.
Originally posted by StarrmanSpanking, in my mind, is not hitting in order to inflict pain. It's a change of subject. I doubt any of my kids would say the smack on the bum they receive hurts their behind. Are they embarrassed? YES! And they should be, because if they get a thwack on the butt and sent to their rooms it's because they did something completely outrageous or they will not listen to a thing I ask them to do. And my kids are freaking awesome kids! Having three, ages 8 and twin girls, 11, I can say that we've had many occasions where they needed a wakeup call. It's easy to imagine that you can talk any subject over with kids but there are just times when they are not in the mood to talk and/or they never quite grasp concepts you wish they could, because they are just kids. Some things they just grasp over time and many experiences. I get what you saying but I think there is a difference. I was hit as a kid and I don't use the same methods on my children.
I'm sorry, as much as it pains me to say it, and ignoring his zeal on the issue, I'm with VR on this. There is no such thing as skillful use of hitting. Skill is when you avoid doing it in favour of reason or any other form of non-contact discipline. If you can't discipline your child without hitting them, it's not the child that's the problem. And the ...[text shortened]... ing a kid under any disciplinary circumstances is an excuse for not being a better parent.
I have heard it said that the reason grown-ups hit children is because children can't hit back.
I don't suppose darvlay's dad hits him now!
Calling it abuse may be a bit strong but it seems to me to be misguided.
"Your gentleness shall force
More than your force move us to gentleness."
'As You Like It' William Shakespear
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Originally posted by Starrmanreally? read this and think it over: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100107/spanking_study_100107/20100107?hub=Health
I'm sorry, as much as it pains me to say it, and ignoring his zeal on the issue, I'm with VR on this. There is no such thing as skillful use of hitting. Skill is when you avoid doing it in favour of reason or any other form of non-contact discipline. If you can't discipline your child without hitting them, it's not the child that's the problem. And the ing a kid under any disciplinary circumstances is an excuse for not being a better parent.
or this (more scientificerer): http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/spare_the_rod.htm
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Originally posted by Rene-ClaudeI stood up to my Dad when I was 10 years old and my sister was about 4. My Dad just spanked her, for what I don't remember, and he was yelling something or other and I told him he was acting like a bully.
I have heard it said that the reason grown-ups hit children is because children can't hit back.
I don't suppose darvlay's dad hits him now!
Calling it abuse may be a bit strong but it seems to me to be misguided.
"Your gentleness shall force
More than your force move us to gentleness."
'As You Like It' William Shakespear
I'll never forget what he said when I told him that. He said "What? You think I'm a bad father?"
Even at that age I knew that, just by the virtue of asking, he doubted his own actions and was secretly ashamed of himself. I told him with a straight-face and unwavering voice "Yes". My Dad never spanked me again after that.
So I completely agree. He wasn't abusive. He was misguided. He still is.
Originally posted by darvlayDo you have children? Talk to me again when you do.
I think if Crowley made a conscious decision to hit his children because his Dad did the same to him and it was all wonderful how he turned out then I think that's back-ass-wards and, yes, it's bad parenting.
For my Dad, it was a crutch. He didn't have to figure out the what and the why, he'd just yell something in Korean and I would run. He was impatie ...[text shortened]... y, it was. He didn't stop to think that maybe his family before him were as bad as he was.
You're twisting my words around to mean something I ever did because you had an abusive father. Did you also read the part where I said my dad sat my brother and I down after every spanking and discussed it with us?
I have amazing respect for the old man, especially after I had children and I see how they can wind you up.
I was using the argument to counter the idiotic notion that spanking a child is abuse, not using it to justify a well thought out decision my wife and I made about raising our kids.
Christ, another pansy-assed Canadian like Rusty. Never thought I'd lump you in that pile.