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Originally posted by FMFSo the little children who walk up and down on their grandmothers back giving a foot massage are engaging in intimacy, you are one sicko, get away from me, creepy guy.
Intimacy between a husband and wife, whether it be spiritual or physical, is 'sex life'. Yes.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieGrandmothers? Little Children? No. Intimacy between a husband and wife, whether it be spiritual or physical, is 'sex life'.
So the little children who walk up and down on their grandmothers back giving a foot massage are engaging in intimacy, you are one sicko, get away from me, creepy guy.
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Originally posted by FMFIt is, as i have explained, or tried to explain, despite the barrage of protests, a cultural phenomena. It is not out of the ordinary, nor deemed as such, nor does it have any sexual overtones, to give and receive a massage. It is very common, for little children of about ten, to walk up and down the spine and the back of the legs, giving what is termed a foot massage, usually for grandmothers and aunts and uncles. It is also common for husbands and wife's to give each other a massage, with their clothes on, consisting of a shoulder rub, or a head massage, or whatever. It is never considered as sexual intimacy, never! As for running a bath, i have never heard of anyone copulating and conceiving through the simple process of running a bath.
Grandmothers? Little Children? No. Intimacy between [b]a husband and wife, whether it be spiritual or physical, is 'sex life'.[/b]
You have either misunderstood the process and intent, in your haste to state that it was sexual, its a common misconception and highlights one of the differences that i was alluding to.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieMutual massage between sexual partners is part of their sexual relationship. Massage by people who are not sexual partners is not sexual at all. If you disagree then perhaps I take a more holistic and spiritual view of marriage and the sexual connection between spouses or life partners. If you want to say that a sexual relationship is only about coitus, fair enough. Not so in my view.
It is, as i have explained, or tried to explain, despite the barrage of protests, a cultural phenomena. It is not out of the ordinary, nor deemed as such, nor does it have any sexual overtones, to give and receive a massage.
Personally I have seen or experienced little difference in the amount of massage - given or received - between partners in the "West" and in the "East". Perhaps you sought it out when you went "East" to "avoid [Western girls]" Did you not give and get massages with "Western girls" [who were your partners] before you started avoiding them for cultural reasons?
As for "cultural phenomena", there is indeed an insistence and expectation, in many male dominated societies and cultures, of submission and subservience on the part of women. 'Culture' means many things, and part of it is 'what people do to get by'.
Many women in male dominated psychological-economic contexts will play the submissive and subservient role too, perhaps understandably, when you consider that it is not so many years ago when virtually all of them were seen as, and treated as, chattel - and many millions continue to be. You seem to savour the cultural upshot and still present vestiges of the historically servile status of women in your version of the "East".
Of course, in the real "East" there are hundreds of millions of "Eastern girls" who do not want to be chattel anymore, and who with inceased economic independence, education and employment opportunities are managing to leave the submission and subservience thing behind them, as emancipation and gender equality take root.
This side of the "East" - the Asian women who do not want to define themselves in terms of their servitude and deference to men anymore - are conveniently airbrushed out of the reality on the ground in the 21stC as depicted by your fatuous, chauvinistic, pith helmet-vintage generalizations.
How could someone with a purported interest in the "East" not know this? Why would someone with a genuine interest in the reality for "Eastern girls" seek to perpetuate shallow and dated stereotypes?
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Originally posted by FMFYou sought, at the very outset to base your vitriol of an assumption, which lead you to all sorts of gross inaccuracies and evaluations. Look how it lead you to proclaim that i was advocating and i quote, a porn-movie-plot level stereotype, when nothing could have been further from the truth. There was also some other person, for want of a better term, claiming that it was akin to advertising sex trafficking, and now here you are again, projecting your perceptions, as if they are some kind of reality?
Mutual massage between sexual partners is part of their sexual relationship. Massage by people who are not sexual partners is not sexual at all. If you disagree then perhaps I take a more holistic and spiritual view of marriage and the sexual connection between spouses or life partners. If you want to say that a sexual relationship is only about coitus, fair eno or "Eastern girls" seek to perpetuate shallow and dated stereotypes?
I am from the west, and you are now even in your arrogance, pontificating to me and trying to quantify the amount of massage that in generic terms, goes on between east and west. Let me tell you I have never seen my sister give my brother in law a massage, nor have i seen it in public among couples, with the exception of the swedes, who like to do it. Indeed thinking of all the girlfriends i had prior to marriage, I cannot think of one who had learned the soothing art, and here you are trying to tell me that the two cultures are practically synonymous, maybe your just not the demonstrative type, who can say?
I resent your terms and defamatory remarks, I personally think that submissiveness is a beautiful quality, in men and women , for it takes greater strength and humility for a women to place herself in the loving care of a husband than it does to be self seeking. It shows not only a deep respect, which no doubt shall be reciprocated, but a willingness to put her concerns to one side for the sake of harmony, in other words to demonstrate a self sacrificing spirit which can only be conducive to the strengthening of the marriage bond, and here you are, defiling it with so called emancipatory rhetoric, as if slavery and a genuine willingness to please ones partner were one and the same thing. Excuse me while i vomit up your words.
If you have anything objective, anything virtuous, anything remotely of worth, I shall consider those, all other personal remarks will be ignored, I will not have you projecting your twisted and cynical views, pontificating from your throne of self righteousness, as if you were a herald of some type of new morality, when in fact, you have sought to demean women, by failing to see the innate beauty and strength that comes from a self effacing and self sacrificing disposition.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDo I take it you're being serious?
...it takes greater strength and humility for a women to place herself in the loving care of a husband than it does to be self seeking. It shows not only a deep respect, which no doubt shall be reciprocated, but a willingness to put her concerns to one side for the sake of harmony, in other words to demonstrate a self sacrificing spirit which can only be conducive to the strengthening of the marriage bond...
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieInnate? So women who are not self effacing and do not have a self sacrificing disposition are going against 'nature' or against their 'true humanity' in some way?
...you have sought to demean women, by failing to see that innate beauty and strength comes from a self effacing and self sacrificing disposition.
Do at at least understand why you might be seen as a misogynist by people, even if you smart at the accusation?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDoes your "Eastern girl" wife give your work colleagues baths and gentle massages? If the answer is "yes" then I will accept that when she gives you baths and gentle massages is "It is never considered as sexual intimacy, never!" as you assert.
Eastern girls give you a bath and a gentle massage...