Eastern girls v Western girls

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sorry FMF , your simply not worth it, i was warned by a well meaning friend to say clear of you, good advice that I am going to take. You are incapable, i repeat, incapable of refraining from making personal remarks, go vilify someone else.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...you have sought to demean women, by failing to see that innate beauty and strength comes from a self effacing and self sacrificing disposition.

This is on-topic and in direct response to your post:

What do you mean by "innate"? So women who are not self effacing and do not have a self sacrificing disposition are going against 'nature' or against their 'true humanity' in some way?

Do at at least understand why you might be seen as a misogynist by people, even if you smart at the accusation?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...it takes greater strength and humility for a women to place herself in the loving care of a husband than it does to be self seeking.

Are you seriously claiming that it takes greater strength and humility for Asian women to place themselves in the loving care of husbands than it does to be self seeking, independent, emancipated, autonomous? That is your perception of what women face in the "East"?

Originally posted by mikelom
Hum? 😲

I'd tend to disagree with that sweeping, and angered, statement. However, I'm staying out of this one. I've had my piece.

But to clarify one thing; I have no mommy issues; I work hard; and I serve my wife and community well.

Shame on such a swept opinion. That's not like you ml

😳

-m.

Thread 78859

Hey, Sunburnt, interesting that you actually defended mikelom there. I don't see much difference, to be honest.

Originally posted by FMF
Are you seriously claiming that it takes greater strength and humility for Asian women to place themselves in the loving care of husbands than it does to be self seeking, independent, emancipated, autonomous? That is your perception of what women face in the "East"?

I am saying that genuine humility in whatever capacity, takes greater strength to display than self seeking and self indulgence, indeed, probably all of a family's problems, as well as society can be traced back to selfishness in one form or another. It is an observation of the disposition that many eastern and western women display, despite problems they are facing! Why dont you talk and think of women as having qualities, why must you assign them inane and generic terms like emancipated, autonomous, independent? Are not the two now one after marriage? Are not the concerns not simply with self but in taking another into consideration, has this fact escaped you? yet you seek to distance yourself from it and cloak your arguments in faceless and contrite terms, self seeking and independent. Are married persons independent of each other, or are they one? And you think that such a disposition has no relevance to a 50/50 chance of divorce, when indeed, in almost every case, selfishness and a lack of humility by either partner has resulted in marital shipwreck.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am saying that genuine humility in whatever capacity, takes greater strength to display than self seeking and self indulgence, indeed, probably all of a family's problems, as well as society can be traced back to selfishness in one form or another. It is an observation of the disposition that many eastern and western women display, despite problem ...[text shortened]... y case, selfishness and a lack of humility by either partner has resulted in marital shipwreck.

But I'm sure you'd agree that for that to be a good thing it is a question of symmetry. If the wife submits to the man they also become one, but that's not gender or marriage equality.

And in a world where gender discrimination is still so large, perhaps it would have been more fortunate if you picked examples where such selfless love displays of your wife were reciprocated by you in some way. Also, the example of India was maybe also unfortunate as the problem of submission of woman to man is still serious (although improving, thankfully). Here's an article on it:
http://www.indiatogether.org/2004/nov/ksh-tolerate.htm

I agree that selfishness also leads to marital shipwreck, but so does male dominance lead to lower divorce rates. It's good to make it very clear which one we are talking about.

Originally posted by Palynka
Thread 78859

Hey, Sunburnt, interesting that you actually defended mikelom there. I don't see much difference, to be honest.

Wow! How time's flown that conversation was over 3 years ago 😲
Somebody stop the clock time's going by way too fast.

Originally posted by Palynka
Thread 78859

Hey, Sunburnt, interesting that you actually defended mikelom there. I don't see much difference, to be honest.

Bless. You actually trawled back 4 years, when I was first learning about Asian culture. How we change over time. 😉

Originally posted by mikelom
Bless. You actually trawled back 4 years, when I was first learning about Asian culture. How we change over time. 😉

Search forums: mikelom wife. No trawling. Took me less than a minute.

How did you change since then? You seem to have ditched the bottle, I'm very glad for you.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
And you think that such a disposition has no relevance to a 50/50 chance of divorce, when indeed, in almost every case, selfishness and a lack of humility by either partner has resulted in marital shipwreck.

And you are content that the subjugation of women, and the continuing insistence that women are self effacing and have a self sacrificing disposition, is what is necessary to keep the divorce rate as far away as possible from 50/50? What wretched injustices and interminable stories of endurance are disguised by the lower rates of divorce in cultures that are still oppressive for women?

Originally posted by Palynka
Search forums: mikelom wife. No trawling. Took me less than a minute.

How did you change since then? You seem to have ditched the bottle, I'm very glad for you.

I think if you are aware that I've pretty much kept out of trouble, and that's a fairly easy obervation for you to make, you will see change.
I also haven't made sexist comments here and neither, contrary to your belief, in the thread way back 4 years ago. I simply thanked my wife for preparing my work attire and supporting my job. It was pretty much argued out in that thread that I hadn't been sexist.

People do change, develop amd mature Palynka; well some of us, anyway.

-m.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Why dont you talk and think of women as having qualities, why must you assign them inane and generic terms like emancipated, autonomous, independent?

During my 20 years, on and off, living and working in various parts of the "East", including contributing in the fields of combatting domestic violence, micro-finance for enterprises under the control of women, as well as fostering greater degrees of participation by women in community decision making - especially in areas such as education and health - I can honsestly say that emancipation, autonomy, justice and gender equality are not "inane and generic terms".

They pertain to real women's lives - millions of them - real living breathing women, robbie, gradually hauling themselves out of the era of chattel, servitude and quiet endurance as so many of their husbands exercise their manly 'selfishness and a lack of humility' thing, as condoned by their culture since time immemorial.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Are married persons independent of each other, or are they one?

Why is it you object to women being 'independent' and self-realised individuals before they get married? You must realise that this is the aspiration and ambition of many hundreds of millions of "Eastern girls" as we move steadily and further into the 21stC?

And what about these strengths and this humility of Asian women when they place themselves in the care of husbands who are not loving, and not selfless and not humble? What do you make of the prevelance of such husbands in Asia? What do you make of women being submissive and servile in the face of these kinds of men? Aren't you moved at all by the evidence that indicates that this kind of thing is simply hidden behind low divorce rates?

Originally posted by FMF
Why is it you object to women being 'independent' and self-realised individuals before they get married? You must realise that this is the aspiration and ambition of many hundreds of millions of "Eastern girls" as we move steadily and furtehr into the 21stC?

And what about these strengths and this humility of Asian women that you admire when they place ...[text shortened]... evidence that indicates that this kind of thing is simply hidden behind low divorce rates?

FMF these forums just wouldn't be the same without you. Robbie can't be held responsiable for how other men behave towards their wives. He made a mistake, forum burp, when he tittled and began this thread IMO. He loves his strong wife and admires her for what she has accumplished and how she is so giving. For his own reasons he contributes that to her culture- is he right, who knows personally growing up with so many cultures arround me it's very hard to discern what part of what is from where for me.
This is the general forum and anyway you'll not change anyone's mind, though I love your dedication to the notion!

Originally posted by yo its me
FMF these forums just wouldn't be the same without you. Robbie can't be held responsiable for how other men behave towards their wives.

But robbie can be held responsible for his ignorant, chauvinistic generalizations and stereotyping about the realities faced by countless millions of women in Asia. How much he loves his wife - or how much I love mine - is irrelevant.

Originally posted by FMF
But robbie can be held responsible for his ignorant, chauvinistic generalizations and stereotyping about the realities faced by countless millions of women in Asia. How much he loves his wife - or how much I love mine - is irrelevant.

When you're right, you're right FMF. But did he really mean to do that?
Forum burps; we all have em 🙂