Originally posted by invigorateI like the idea of National Service, so long as it doesn't HAVE to be military.
Good points. Although National Service is a not something that would be allowed under the human rights law. Thankfully.
I met some German's in Bolivia who were on their national service helping to build houses for poor people. I think this type of service would give a great grounding in reality for the youth of today. I think a lot of young people don't understand the consequences of their actions due to lack of experience. This type of service can only be beneficial in practical and emotional terms, IMHO.
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Originally posted by catfoodtimAlthough I agree that hooliganism exists everywhere (I've posted videos about russian and french hooligans) it's also fair to say that whenever national teams are involved, English hooligans have been the ones causing the most trouble.
This entire thread is the biggest pile of crud I have ever seen.
Hooliganism isn't limited to English soccer fans, despite you all wanting to feel smug and superior.
Italian fans are notoriously terrible - the games I saw in Italy were shocking. Turkish supporters, especially in Istanbul, are just barbaric. Look at German, Polish and Dutch fans a outside the Premiership in lower league clubs with smaller stadiums and strong local support.
Even if that might not have been your point, I think it's ridiculous to claim that the fact that hooliganism exists in several countries somehow it's supposed to be considered normal.
It's not normal and should be dealt with and not simply ignored, especially since there are several cases where the police or non-hooligans get hurt by these morons. I care a whole lot less if they just beat each other senseless.
Originally posted by catfoodtimYes, I went to the game and was trying to get to my lift home with my girlfriend. I'm glad the police did use force as the thugs would have just went on and on with their stupid violence.
Were you attending the game?
Would you say that the police have learnt the lesson of Heysel? Or would you prefer they didn't use force to restore order?
Should the clubs themselves be held responsible for the actions of their paying supporters?
Would football be as enjoyable without the passion of fans at games?
I think that the clubs should be shown footage of the violence and then they should ban them from the ground for life.
I'm a passionate football fan, but I don't go around throwing rocks at police and horses, it's not the passion that is questionable, but the intelligence of some people's actions.
Also HOH, you are still an ar$e.
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Only one of the clubs mentioned is English. The team who's supporters started this situation are welsh.
This game kicked off at 1:30 (to prevent drinking) because it was flagged as a potential flash point game. So are games between Millwall and Cardiif (another welsh club) And swansea (the team involved in this incident) V cardiff.
Cardiff (The soul crew) and Swansea (The Jack Army) have large hooligan followings and both groups have caused trouble numerous times over the years.
Millwall have always had a large hooligan following as well.
Someone eariler mentioned that at millwall a large number don't actually go to the game but wait for visiting fans 10 minutes before the end of games.
I can confirm this as I had a job in a freight company very near the new den. The MD and around 20 of the employees congregated in the loading area and once they had all arrived they walked on mass to the ground.
I did not let on to them that I was a Palace fan as I think they may have hung me! The point is that they claim to be Millwall fans but in reality they are just thugs. 'Their' team were at home but they only turned up for the fight after the game.
I have visited 100 different grounds with my team and the last time I was involved in any trouble was in the early 90's.
Cardiff visited Palace two weeks ago and the lovely welsh boys started trouble all over the place. Including beating up a deaf 15 YO.
And finally, they could not have been drunk because all the local pubs were shut. They are basically just scumbags not football fans.