Hopscotch wrote...
It's a cowardly act because whether we'd like it or not, most of us are moralistic. As a species we've had morals long before we had religion. Most of us like to think that we're honest with ourselves, if we suddenly see two people humping away in front of us, for real, we'd be mature enough to leave them alone because if we were one of those people we'd want to be left alone... so that's based on empathy. If you're looking a woman on the screen having certain acts performed upon her person, there's some small part of you that empathizes with her, which is probably what turns you on... the cowardice comes in because you are too scared to try to go out there and do those things yourself... and then... if you did... that porn would probably not mean much to you any more, because you've lived out that fantasy.
That was well put. As I see it the problem with pornography in current times is not so much related to its history, which granted has always been there in one form or another -- heck, just look at the Egyptian god Min (who is always shown with a full blown erection) or the Tantric Kajuraho deities or northern India -- but to the fact that modern technology makes it possible for people to simply watch sexual activity with ease from their home at all hours in a purely passive, non-participatory manner. Along with the rest of our culture of passivity it effectively contributes to a society of emotionally and socially stunted individuals who waste energy in masturbatory excess. Masturbation is obviously not the problem; excess is, as with anything. If you're one of the ones who claims porn has "aided in your development" then good for you but I suspect far more use it to effectively escape into a realm of pleasures consistent with simple dope used to dissociate from the hardships and basic challenges of life. As for the "sexploitation" angle, it's clearly there, let's face it the porn industry largely caters to straight (and gay) men. Female "porn" is more the equivalent of Harlequin romance and tabloid garbage. Equally vacuous intellectually, but not requiring men to get naked and subject their bodies to endless barrages of female bodily fluid projectiles.
Sex itself is completely innocent and arguments about the importance of not repressing sexuality are valid, perhaps more so to societies that are already relatively sexually repressed. But c'mon, what's to exhalt about the massive porn industry other than the fact that it gives free rein to be a voyeur whenever we feel like it without incurring the risk of being arrested as a Peeping Tom or a John Holmes or Linda Lovelace wannabe. There are more insidious elements as well, such as the tendency to condition men to believe that all woman are a certain way, that they all fully expect and anticipate with breathless wonder to be used as a human receptacle or as a dumping ground for some guy's load that's been on C.O.D. hold for two weeks. In the age of electronic communication and "wonder" drugs it's too easy to get Fedex crossed with Fedsex and end up thinking you can email your tongue to your own orifices or that you can combine Rogaine with Viagra and end up looking like Don King on coke. Failing that, you can always fastforward your way to orgasm, or rewind the tape to relive the wondrous excitement of foreplay, which in the case of porn consists mostly of the woman knocking on your front door and demanding to s*ck your schlong on the spot before you've even had your morning coffee. Not exactly a cup 'o reality, let alone tea...
So the psychological limitations of porn probably outweigh even the moral concerns, which are themselves legitimate. We may be on our way to holographic 3-d porn in which you can select your own live-action Barbie to interact with in the confines of your own room and thus begin a bona fide initiation into the wonders of cyberphelia, itself one step removed from necrophelia. Essentially it's part of the culture of death, commensurate with plastic credit and plastic Jesus, all part and parcel of a gradual decent into a virtual and disposable reality that will probably be long gone without a trace when statues of Min and the Tantric goddesses of Kajuraho are still around. At least in those times sexuality had some measure of consecration or artistic merit...
Sexual energy is basic to human life, and everyone to one degree or another has some identification with their bodies. Porn however reflects the general diminishment of the female gender especially by its emphasis on the over-riding importance of the female body above all else as a kind of cure for human ills or opiate for existential despair. It is an intense release from the practical elements of relationship because it eliminates the mind of the woman and reduces her to a pile of flesh with useful orifices. She is basically a non-entity, and the man in the porn movie is not much more, a faceless dickhead aiming to perform one function and one function only, to spray his oil on or in her body in a momentary rush of exhaltation and power that enables him to "solve" the puzzle of womanhood without ever having to deal with who she might actually be...
While porn mostly caters to men the industry itself can't be exclusively blamed on men, however. Women participate in this stuff because it pays, and in most cases they probably lack the self-worth to conceive of earning as much money that fast in any other way, regarding their bodies as nothing more than tools, vehicles for glorified theatrical prostitution, means to an end. One could argue that basis for many means to many ends, but most don't require the total abandoning of dignity in the process.
I may think that porn is ultimately stupid but I don't champion repression. Repression is toxic and leads to more problems than it solves. But any regular activity that directs one away from the experience of life and real-time interaction with others and increasingly toward a private world of make-believe and endless watching of others getting it on, does not aid in the ending of repression despite being a momentary release. It more contributes to the underyling problem of modern high-tech times, which is alienation, dissociation from life, constant fleeing from pain, escapism, and lousy interpersonal skills.
Originally posted by hopscotch
Our evolution has not given us any freedom of thought that we did not already have. Now that pornography has become more easily accessible do we seek to justify it as fulfilling some tawdry need? Porn doesn't fulfill anything but the pockets of the producers. You would no doubt laud the educational value of a porn movie, but what are we teaching here? Have we become so lazy and inept at actually thinking for ourselves that we have degenerated into a reliance on the chosen and captioned bedroom habits of others? Hypothetically, if you had the choice to either be completely ignorant during your first real sexual encounter, or if you were 'blessed' with forehand knowledge, playing out some scenario in your bedroom with your partner, nervously trying to remember all the scenes... which would you choose? I'd personally like to find things out for myself.
I'm talking about social evolution and as such I have to disagree with you. Social attitudes towards sex have changed vastly and institutions like the church which have traditionally repressed both sexual and philosophical freedom are less powerful than once they were. Your question about the first experience of sex is immaterial to the debate, but I shall answer you. Honestly? I'd rather have been educated. My first act was woefully pathetic, unpleasant and embarassing. I never want to go through anything so uncomfortable again. However, the scenario you are suggesting is ludicrous, I would not have wanted to repeat a porn scene ad nauseum, credit me with the intelligence to realise that such a thing is fantasy and not appropriate to one's first sexual encounter.
Yes, but an open allowance of the expression of our natural instincts leads to a lack of accountability for our actions. Say Joe kills Steve. Joe goes to court, says, "Hey judge dude, I'm only human." Humanity as we know it is a result of repression, repression allows us our superiority over other creatures on this planet. If we just did whatever we wanted when we wanted then we would end up with nothing by tomorrow. It's about foresight... and I suppose that a healthy mind would be filled with repression of basic animalistic desires, because of a belief in "tomorrow". Pornography does not serve to reduce repression in any way,
I did not claim it did, I merely warned against the repression of pornography.
it only serves to exacerbate and cheapen the underlying cause of this repression, fantasy.
I disagree, fantasy is very specific to each person, I do not believe you can cheapen it, cheapness is not a quality I see fantasy having.
If we binge on porn our fantasies become diluted accordingly. It's an age old curse that we are burdened to want what we can't have, porn takes advantage of that by giving us a taste of what we could not achieve due to our own failure to succeed sexually with a thousand brilliantly hot young lesbians.
Who's bingeing? Everyone here seems to be talking about either excessive porn until you go blind, or women-hating men and the evil filth they purvey. We need some perspective here I think.
See above, repression is good, we wouldn't be where we are if we didn't repress what we wanted. Right now I'm repressing a desire to go home and sleep, but instead you're graced with my amazing insights for another post as I whittle away the afternoon.
A society needs to repress those instincts which it has decided are counterproductive to its survival and success. These change as society changes, what is amazing insight today may be laugable nonsense tomorrow 🙂
Nope. Does it have pictures?
I believe you can buy illustrated versions, though the original was not itself illustrated. You may also check out the film Eugenie which is a poor adaptation of the book and holds none of the real philosophy which Sade was examining.
It's a cowardly act because whether we'd like it or not, most of us are moralistic.
Cowardly? I think this is a poor choice of word. Is dressing yourself in private cowardly? Or locking the bathroom door when going for a sh;t cowardly?
As a species we've had morals long before we had religion. Most of us like to think that we're honest with ourselves, if we suddenly see two people humping away in front of us, for real, we'd be mature enough to leave them alone because if we were one of those people we'd want to be left alone... so that's based on empathy.
I don't believe this is an act of empathy at all, I'm not even sure most people would react the way you claim anyway. Most people would be offended and those that weren't wouldn't turn away out of empathy, but out of a lack of interest.
If you're looking a woman on the screen having certain acts performed upon her person, there's some small part of you that empathizes with her, which is probably what turns you on...
I still don't see how you link this to empathy. When I see a woman on screen having acts performed upon her, I may find my libido stirred at the idea of committing similar acts, but I feel no sense of empathy, either with her or her partners.
the cowardice comes in because you are too scared to try to go out there and do those things yourself... and then... if you did... that porn would probably not mean much to you any more, because you've lived out that fantasy.
I often try things I have seen in porn with my partner, porn still turns me on. What you and mokko both seem to be talking about is some stereotypical fat house-slob who gets his frequent kicks from a beer and his right hand. This is not the average porn watcher.
I didn't say that porn never did anything good for the individual, I said it never did anything good for society (I mean, as a whole).
I still disagree here, if nothing else it has been an outlet for rebellion against outmoded senses of religious or moral servitude.
We'd best be careful here... this porn thread could turn into a discussion on the meaning of our entire existence.
And what bette rplace to start than f|_|cking?
Originally posted by Metamorphosis
That was well put. As I see it the problem with pornography in current times is not so much related to its history, which granted has always been there in one form or another -- heck, just look at the Egyptian god Min (who is always shown with a full blown erection) or the Tantric Kajuraho deities or northern India -- but to the fact that modern technology makes it possible for people to simply watch sexual activity with ease from their home at all hours in a purely passive, non-participatory manner. Along with the rest of our culture of passivity it effectively contributes to a society of emotionally and socially stunted individuals who waste energy in masturbatory excess. Masturbation is obviously not the problem; excess is, as with anything. If you're one of the ones who claims porn has "aided in your development" then good for you but I suspect far more use it to effectively escape into a realm of pleasures consistent with simple dope used to dissociate from the hardships and basic challenges of life.
Oh please! You're saying that porn is a symptom of some plague of apathy that's spreading across modern life? I can name plenty of things that contribute to this supposed plague, TV, Religion, Alcohol, Unemployment, etc. These people are stunted well before porn gets hold of them and the reason is society's inability to cater for all its citizens. Holding porn responsible is redundant.
As for the "sexploitation" angle, it's clearly there, let's face it the porn industry largely caters to straight (and gay) men. Female "porn" is more the equivalent of Harlequin romance and tabloid garbage. Equally vacuous intellectually, but not requiring men to get naked and subject their bodies to endless barrages of female bodily fluid projectiles.
There is other porn out there and it is becoming more popular all the time. Also the quality of porn for females is improving. I agree (as I have done previously in this thread) that there is exploitation, but this is not part of the arguement I was addressing.
Sex itself is completely innocent and arguments about the importance of not repressing sexuality are valid, perhaps more so to societies that are already relatively sexually repressed. But c'mon, what's to exhalt about the massive porn industry other than the fact that it gives free rein to be a voyeur whenever we feel like it without incurring the risk of being arrested as a Peeping Tom or a John Holmes or Linda Lovelace wannabe. There are more insidious elements as well, such as the tendency to condition men to believe that all woman are a certain way, that they all fully expect and anticipate with breathless wonder to be used as a human receptacle or as a dumping ground for some guy's load that's been on C.O.D. hold for two weeks.
I agree, the conditioning aspect is a problem, but again, this is born out more widely in the media, advertising for example. Sex sells, it always has and this use of it was around long before the film industry turned to pornography mainstream.
In the age of electronic communication and "wonder" drugs it's too easy to get Fedex crossed with Fedsex and end up thinking you can email your tongue to your own orifices or that you can combine Rogaine with Viagra and end up looking like Don King on coke.
Lol, that is a great sentence.
Failing that, you can always fastforward your way to orgasm, or rewind the tape to relive the wondrous excitement of foreplay, which in the case of porn consists mostly of the woman knocking on your front door and demanding to s*ck your schlong on the spot before you've even had your morning coffee. Not exactly a cup 'o reality, let alone tea...
Yes and here is the real important thing. Porn isn't realistic, it is diversionary, it is fantasy. No woman in her right mind thinks that the plumber taking her against the kitchen sink is either a common occurrence or a likely realism, but I imagine many of them have fantasised such. And what's wrong with that? Porn gives people an additional element of fantasy and excitement. People here are trying to villify it and those who watch it for th ewrong reasons. Yes there is exploitation requiring better regulations and safeguards. Yes there is conditional stereotyping which is unhealthy (though as I've outlined, I don't believe porn is the major cause or indeed the original perpertrator), but porn as a concept needs to be taken as a fantastical and enjoyable addition to sex.
So the psychological limitations of porn probably outweigh even the moral concerns, which are themselves legitimate. We may be on our way to holographic 3-d porn in which you can select your own live-action Barbie to interact with in the confines of your own room and thus begin a bona fide initiation into the wonders of cyberphelia, itself one step removed from necrophelia.
What bearing has this got on the issue at hand? And would you care to elaborate on why you think cyberphilia would be one step removed from necrophilia? Next you'll be saying that the portrayal of sexy characters in computer games is akin to jacking off in a graveyard.
Essentially it's part of the culture of death, commensurate with plastic credit and plastic Jesus, all part and parcel of a gradual decent into a virtual and disposable reality that will probably be long gone without a trace when statues of Min and the Tantric goddesses of Kajuraho are still around. At least in those times sexuality had some measure of consecration or artistic merit...
I'm not sure this has anything to do with the subject and I disagree with both your design for life and the necessity for consecration of sexuality.
Sexual energy is basic to human life, and everyone to one degree or another has some identification with their bodies. Porn however reflects the general diminishment of the female gender especially by its emphasis on the over-riding importance of the female body above all else as a kind of cure for human ills or opiate for existential despair. It is an intense release from the practical elements of relationship because it eliminates the mind of the woman and reduces her to a pile of flesh with useful orifices.
That entirely depends on the person watchin the porn. If someone views porn as a normative state of womanhood, then they need re-educating and I would go so far as to say that this sort of misogynic porn is a reflection of a lack of respect which is already endemic and needs to be quashed regardless of porn. If this were achieved, porn would have a great deal more to offer a great deal more people.
She is basically a non-entity, and the man in the porn movie is not much more, a faceless dickhead aiming to perform one function and one function only, to spray his oil on or in her body in a momentary rush of exhaltation and power that enables him to "solve" the puzzle of womanhood without ever having to deal with who she might actually be...
Anyone who watches porn and tries to solve the puzzle of womanhood is looking for something which was never intended to be present. You are putting far to much imagination into a fairly arbitrary sexual representation.
While porn mostly caters to men the industry itself can't be exclusively blamed on men, however. Women participate in this stuff because it pays, and in most cases they probably lack the self-worth to conceive of earning as much money that fast in any other way, regarding their bodies as nothing more than tools, vehicles for glorified theatrical prostitution, means to an end. One could argue that basis for many means to many ends, but most don't require the total abandoning of dignity in the process.
Agree
I may think that porn is ultimately stupid but I don't champion repression. Repression is toxic and leads to more problems than it solves. But any regular activity that directs one away from the experience of life and real-time interaction with others and increasingly toward a private world of make-believe and endless watching of others getting it on, does not aid in the ending of repression despite being a momentary release. It more contributes to the underyling problem of modern high-tech times, which is alienation, dissociation from life, constant fleeing from pain, escapism, and lousy interpersonal skills.
I feel sorry you see the world in this way. While I agree with your comments on repression, I find your outlook on life disappointing, we are evolving socially and technologically all the time and I find it both awe-inspriring, exciting and hopeful. Though this is a subject for another discussion methinks.
EDIT: Sheesh that took a long time. I think I've said all I have to say really, people will still disagree with me I am sure and are of course entitled to do so. I would ask those that do not agree with porn to refrain from calling those of us who do 'filth' though.
Originally posted by kirksey957How much honesty do you want... this is the internet afterall and perhaps it shouldn't matter but I care more about what most of you think than many of the people in my day to day life....
"I would venture to guess that most males get their sexual education from pornography.... Do any others of you have any positve experiences with porn?"
I got much of my sexual education through a bisexual friend... her lesbian friends thought it very important that every man should know how to please a woman in the bedroom... I found many of them to be far more descriptive and perverse that any of my male friends... a great and mind opening experience for me... hopefully I was a good student... I'm hoping they'll start a graduate course as they were excellent instructors.
Today I'm happily married and love my wife dearly. Our relationship is monogamous and I prefer it that way. Despite this, I have a significantly greater sexual drive than my wife and I focus on making our sexual experience memorable and significant. Personally I prefer quantity to quality and would put rabbits to shame if I didn't care about how my wife felt. As a result I keep a small porn collection to facilitate my already vivid imagination. No one gets hurt, I keep my hyperactive sexual drive in check and make sure that my wife's needs are taken care of. Could I do without the porn?... sure, but why? I can't think of a time where porn has been a negative influence in by life.
Originally posted by fiestano we don't have to "roll with angie" on this one. workers are exploited everywhere no matter where you live, and as long as there is legal abortion in the u.s.a. save the argument on the child labor.
but its still expoitation...and have to go with Angie on this one ... we can choose to ignore pornography..its like music and food if you dont like it dont eat it/listen to it... if people choose to go into an industry that pays them lots of money then thats exactly what it is...their choice.. as we have a choice to read/watch/ thats specifically why porn mag ...[text shortened]... orts shoes keeping these sweat shops open,just like the demand for porn will always be there...
we can't ignore porn cause it's everywhere. there are stores on every corner like cvs. it's easy to watch it on the net, especially for children. so what's a worse crime child labor or children that can get easy access to pornography.
Starrman....
Oh please! You're saying that porn is a symptom of some plague of apathy that's spreading across modern life?
Well, it's good to know that you can read. Yeah, I think that's basically what I said, with the emphasis on "symptom", not cause.
I can name plenty of things that contribute to this supposed plague, TV, Religion, Alcohol, Unemployment, etc. These people are stunted well before porn gets hold of them and the reason is society's inability to cater for all its citizens. Holding porn responsible is redundant.
Alas, here you're not reading my words carefully. I said nothing about "holding porn responsible", with the obvious insinuation being "solely responsible". I said it "effectively contributes". Certainly the things you mentioned contribute to problematic elements in modern society as well, and none can be ultimately isolated without seeing the greater context in which they arise. But that does't make any of them exempt from critical examination either. And this certainly applies to porn. (As for "people being stunted well before porn gets hold of them", how would you know this?) Obviously porn cannot be held solely accountable for a person's social or psychological inadequacies, and that is not being argued. My point is that it is a contributing factor to a culture of passivity and non-participation in life, along with a host of other factors.
In fact, let me take this a bit deeper. I see a relationship between porn and religion, in terms of the conditioning the latter has had on human psychological development, and I refer here especially to Western monotheistic religions. (And interestingly, Japanese culture has become saturated with porn only during the modern era of its Westernization on many levels). Most Western forms of religion, or at least how their doctrine has been interpreted and disseminated by clergy, take a dim view of the body and of sexuality. Religious dogma is full of all sorts of condemnations of bodily reality and in particular the powers of human sexual passion. In fact, the Judeo-Christian "devil" is mostly a charicature of the pagan god "Cernunnos", the "Green Man", the Dionysian force of human primal power. This archetype showed up in Greek myth as Pan, and in Roman myth as Faunus, the forest creature of chaotic and procreative power. He had horns and hoofs and was usually "horny". He was very unpredictable and spontaneous. He embodied the "wild man", if you will.
Now oddly enough, it's this "wild man" that is appealing to women on many levels (though preferably, a wild man with cultural restraints and sensibilities). But, this "wild man", this force of raw masculine sexual power, got mostly repressed and twisted into a grotesque archetype of "evil", a goat-like force of aggression and blind impulse, of self-centered agendas and rebellion against the Whole, that became known as the "devil". In many respects this "devil" was simply a symbol of the repressed sexuality of the celibate religious priesthood. Just look at the typical visual representations of the "devil", and you're left with a horned, goat-like creature that is a laughable symbol of perverted (and repressed) male sexuality.
Over time most religions adopted a repressive stance toward sexual energy, and this in turn fostered an overall culture of repression, of "unnatural" expression of sexual energy. Unnatural expression of sexual energy is essentially perversion, in all its forms. Perversion can loosely be defined as a resort to certain forms of expression that give relief or release to that which has already been repressed; the expression itself is then exaggerated, the very exaggeration of which is commonly viewed as "perverted". But the problem lies not in the so-called perversions, the problem lies in the repression itself, the rejection of natural primal forces.
Porn is simply an outlet for these repressions, a form of excitation that is excitable precisely because it is perceived as a rebellion against some imposed moralism, which is mostly deriving from organized religion and religious dogma. But porn itself is clearly simply a symptom of a sickness, a sickness that is deriving from a perverse view of sexuality. Repression has gone so deep, mostly due to religious conditioning, that it has somehow become "exciting" to watch others engage sexually, instead of engaging sexually oneself. Put another way, it somehow becomes more interesting to observe life than to actually live life. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with observation itself. But it becomes problematic in terms of the healthy development of an individual when they use the technological capacity to observe others as a reason to not advance directly into the experiential domain of life itself.
I agree, the conditioning aspect is a problem, but again, this is born out more widely in the media, advertising for example. Sex sells, it always has and this use of it was around long before the film industry turned to pornography mainstream.
Yes, which is why it can be very useful to examine with a critical eye exactly what we're being bombarded with on a daily basis. For anyone who aspires to live in such a way that is not shaped by external forces to the point where individual freedom of mind is compromised, then the very things that appear to be so commonplace in our lives are the very things that need to be examined, seen for what they are. That has nothing to do with moralism, finally, and everything to do with consciousness. In religion, and many ideological systems, morality precedes consciousness. In living a relatively "awake" life, however, consciousness arises first, with morality following naturally. But when we are conditioned by mass messages intended for mass targets, it's too easy to become collateral damage when we abandon rational inquiry and critical assessment of what it is we're being bombarded with.
Yes and here is the real important thing. Porn isn't realistic, it is diversionary, it is fantasy. No woman in her right mind thinks that the plumber taking her against the kitchen sink is either a common occurrence or a likely realism, but I imagine many of them have fantasised such. And what's wrong with that? Porn gives people an additional element of fantasy and excitement.
"Additional elements of fantasy", indeed. My basic argument is that fantasy -- and in particular, excessive fantasy -- directs people away from the experiential foundation of their life. We're already bombarded by "elements of fantasy" from all kinds of sources, not least of which is media itself. People are conditioned to view reality via the filters of news institutions that are themselves run by megacorporations with very particular agendas. The entertainment industry certainly factors in, and porn most certainly does as well. This requires no great conspiratorial imaganation, it's simple and evident. Whatever is directed at you is what you'll become aware of, and what will eventually begin to shape your view of things. All the more so when it is so easy to do so.
People here are trying to villify it and those who watch it for th ewrong reasons. Yes there is exploitation requiring better regulations and safeguards. Yes there is conditional stereotyping which is unhealthy (though as I've outlined, I don't believe porn is the major cause or indeed the original perpertrator), but porn as a concept needs to be taken as a fantastical and enjoyable addition to sex.
"Needs to be taken as a fantastical and enjoyable addition to sex" being prefaced by "needs to" suggests to me that this is largely your own idealism speaking here. Not that idealism is wrong, obviously, but my point is more about the actual reality of how this stuff is used, particularly by younger people. Again, we can't exempt critical examination of ubiquitous phenomena like porn merely because it is assumed to be something "natural".
What bearing has this got on the issue at hand? And would you care to elaborate on why you think cyberphilia would be one step removed from necrophilia. Next you'll be saying that the portrayal of sexy characters in computer games is akin to jacking off in a graveyard.
Careful with the wild, "fantastical" extrapolations. Though in point of fact, there is a Tibetan Tantric practice that involves meditation in graveyards. The point of that practice is to see deeply into the transitoriness of all things, and thus to see beyond the body, into the realm of spiritual energies. The reason it's done in graveyards is because the graveyard represents the reality that one day our physical body will cease to exist, and thus our experience of physical reality is transitory, ephemeral. In Eastern mystical teachings it's often taught that the main force that keeps us attached to physical reality is the sexual force, and thus to move beyond sexual obsession (without repression!) results in great personal evolution.
Concerning the link between porn and a "culture of death", modern Western civilization (in particular) is in many ways preoccupied with the body, and materialism, in part being a spinoff from our scientific materialism and the tendency to view the world as one big clockwork to be manipulated at our beck and call -- or a woman to be manipulated via the clicking of a mouse button, take your pick. In a culture of scientific materialism the body and the material is glorified, at the expense of the spirit, or soul, and thus the experience of the "soul-less society" that many modern thinkers have commented on. Again, this is pretty much obvious. It doesn't mean that our "souls" have gone anywhere, or disappeared down some rabbit-hole of cyberland, but it does suggest that we need to pay close attention to the insidio
(continued...)
ways in which our minds can get drawn into lands of fantasy, unreality, and instant gratification that is all ultimately useless in terms of our development as individuals.
I'm not sure this has anything to do with the subject and I disagree with both your design for life and the necessity for consecration of sexuality.
My "design for life"? And you know this already? Spare me the presumptions.
"Necessity for consecration of sexuality". Who said anything about "necessity"? I was merely commenting on the spiritual traditions of certain older cultures that integrated sexuality into their worldviews.
That entirely depends on the person watchin the porn. If someone views porn as a normative state of womanhood, then they need re-educating and I would go so far as to say that this sort of misogynic porn is a reflection of a lack of respect which is already endemic and needs to be quashed regardless of porn.
Then how do you propose to "quash" this "endemic" lack of respect for women? Your basic idea is valid but the idea that porn itself is somehow exempt from criticism in this context is comical. To exempt porn in this respect is merely to argue for its justification, which is ultimately to argue for the justification of the distorted approach to sexuality that has been engendered by organized religion and the modern technologically reinforced culture of non-participation.
Anyone who watches porn and tries to solve the puzzle of womanhood is looking for something which was never intended to be present. You are putting far to much imagination into a fairly arbitrary sexual representation.
Your idealism is showing again. Porn-addiction is a very real phenomenon, made partly evident via some high profile cases over recent years. If young men (for example) can get addicted to computer games -- and just yesterday a story appeared about a young Korean man dying of heart failure after 50 straight hours of computer game activity -- it's no leap of great logic to assume that porn obsession or addiction occurs as well, at which point it is equally no great leap of logic to surmise that this can easily interfere with normal psychosocial and psychosexual development. So your comment "anyone who watches porn and tries to solve the puzzle of womanhood" is sensible from an ideal perspective, but you must realize that the world doesn't run on ideal perspectives, nor does it typically run on "what makes sense". People by nature are opportunists. Make something available to them, and they will take it. Offer them credit, and they will usually take it. And this is why most of the world runs on systems of debt, or credit. Ideally, there would be no debt, whether individual or national, but there is, precisely because the human being is consumer oriented.
So yes, people need to learn how to be responsible and make decisions, etc., but that doesn't negate the importance of passing criticism on insitutions of society that by nature are clearly flawed. That applies to our institutions of economy, education, entertainment, and certainly to pornography.
I feel sorry you see the world in this way.
Hmmm, I wonder why, since I've not talked in full context about "how I see the world". You're again leaping to conclusions. My comments were solely about "underlying problems". That the world has "underyling problems" should be a no-brainer. Drawing attention to them in no way negates the possibility that I see life in an essentially optimistic way. I do, which is exactly why I underscore the potential and evident limitations of cyber-porn. Reinforcing the worthwhile elements of life does not involve turning a blind eye to the problematic elements.
While I agree with your comments on repression, I find your outlook on life disappointing, we are evolving socially and technologically all the time and I find it both awe-inspriring, exciting and hopeful. Though this is a subject for another discussion methinks.
Feeling "excited and hopeful" is fine, and not a problem. Also, technological evolution is a given, and is clearly ongoing, practically at an exponential rate, especially micro-technology. However, real social evolution is altogether arguable. Some elements of society appear to be legitimately progressing, some appear to be progressing but in all liklihood are not actually progressing, and other elements of society show no signs of progression at all, in some cases even likely regression. (For example, in the 20th century alone more people were killed in warfare than in any other century in recorded history). To see humanity as simply "evolving socially and technologically" and nothing else is mere idealism, not grounded in critical thought. It is, in essence, irrational and illogical.
Most Western forms of religion, or at least how their doctrine has been interpreted and disseminated by clergy, take a dim view of the body and of sexuality.I in no way intend to debate one far more educated than I.I really enjoyed reading your post. thank you.
I am a Christian, though with not a lot of knowlege of other christian denominations,and I have Honestly not noted sexual repression. I can see how that cauld be assumed as most people (even Christians) have a lax attitude about pre-marital sex.That is where the church I know has the greatest problem.
The constant pre-conditioning of our young people makes it so hard for them to make up there own mind.
What one comes to realise as adults to be pure fantasy (mainly in porn movies,books etc.) has been ingrained so deep that it can be impossible to seperate from reality.A bit like trauma can have symptoms long after we have forgoten the cause.
It is something that I speak of from experience and even with knowing (I believe) the 'cause' I am unable to prevent the pain it causes me.I have what many would call an exeptionally good sexual relationship with my wife, but like the child with attachment disorder I will allways want a bit more and get real bad feelings of rejection when I dont get sex every night.(I get it most).I love my wife so much but I feel that we both pay the price for my exposure to porn.
To finish once again,Thank you metamorphosis.
The year is 2020
This is Rocket ground controle to Apolo 36, are you ready for take off.
Apolo 36 to ground controle, this is major Tom, we are ready.
Oky doky, get set 5, 4, 3, hold on, camera 898 please zoom in on major Tom, is that what I think it is.
Camera 898 to controle, yes it is a fly.
Major Tom to ground controle, its my fly.
Ground controle to major Tom, your fly is undone plaese do it up.
Major Tom, to ground controle, thats a negitive the zip is bust.
Ground controle to major Jane, please do up major Toms fly.
Major Jane to ground controle, thats a roger, I am going down now.
To be continued.....
😛😛😛😛