Crikey, I feel like a kid in a custody battle.
I don't know where to start ... right, right up until returning to Shikoku the second time I was thinking about becoming your vassal Uesugi but ultimately decided against for one main reason - my ally (Otomo) was engaged in fierce battle with Hosokawa.
I did leave Shikoku as I said I would but when it became clear that you wouldn't give up on your ally/vassal Hosokawa (as I perhaps shouldn't have expected you to) I went back in.
Due to a misunderstanding I had with Ryuzoji early on, I was considering going to war with him but I knew that that would be suicidal - I'm under no illusions about my prowess in these games. It would have pretty much stopped me and Ryuzoji in our tracks for 4-5 turns, opening up Kyushu for Amako or Ikko Ikki perhaps.
Eventually the situation in Shikoku and common sense in terms of allying with your neighbours made me become Ryuzoji's vassal. He is an excellent suzerain and I have no complaints there.
The make up of the game by that stage meant that us in Kyushu would go to war (and possibly ultimately lose) to Uesugi/Ikko Ikki. Cool - we lose, have a beer and then play another game.
Amako, Uesugi and Ikko Ikki have all been straight-up with me in diplomatic exchanges and I'd have no hesitation allying with them in different games - I agree with Ryuzoji about geography being important - especially for the first turn or ten.
I like the in-game banter and sabre rattling as much, if not more, as the next guy and think it's always good for a laugh but things here are getting a bit ... heated. I am happy exchanging (in character) vile threats and taunts to my enemies here but that doesn't get taken over into other games or forums. The evil Uesugi in this game might be my trusted liege in Age of Conquest (who are you playing again?? 😀)
Apologies if what I've done in the game has contributed to this heated exchange - let me assure you, I'm far too transparent to be very good at double dealing backstabbing.
I just enjoy having a few beers and enjoying the game. 🙂
Originally posted by no1marauderThat makes sense--to hog everything on Kyushu when only 146 GP is necessary. Hmmmm...
I'm sure you'll hog whatever gains you eventually make there like you did on Honshu. After all, you and the Monk are only 146 GPV away from declaring victory.
One other thing: my primary strategy at the start of games is not having neighboring realms gang up on me as happened almost immediately in MD. It was hard enough work trying to keep Ot ...[text shortened]... re going to war against the Kyushu. So the whole "my attitude" thing is a red herring.
I don't know when I went royal--turn 5 or something.
I was always allied with the Ikko Ikki, certainly, but the victory coalition can have three in it. Would make sense, really, for three powerful lords to unite.
I never said anything about your attitude that I can recall. Simply, you failed to make contact with people that could have helped you. Of course your pre-game comments about my treachery and incompetence weren't endearing, but I still tried to make contact with you...Didn't expect much of it (knowing you)...you make a fun enemy...
I wasn't at war with you until 1) you told me to get off the island 2) Otomo declared war on me. I ask you with tears in my eyes, what choice did I have?
Originally posted by treetalkMy curiosity is satisfied. Thanks 🙂
I don't know where to start ... right, right up until returning to Shikoku the second time I was thinking about becoming your vassal Uesugi but ultimately decided against for one main reason - my ally (Otomo) was engaged in fierce battle with Hosokawa. Due to a misunderstanding I had with Ryuzoji early on, I was considering going to war with him but I knew ...[text shortened]... d me and Ryuzoji in our tracks for 4-5 turns, opening up Kyushu for Amako or Ikko Ikki perhaps
Don't worry about the invective flying around...I don't think anyone takes it seriously...
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI don't think you ever tried to contact me this game though it's possible. In MD, you were as worthless as an "ally" to me as anybody could have been; folding after one battle reverse (caused by your own incompetence), failing to send ships into an utterly crucial battle in the Adriatric when you had promised to, eventually giving my enemies passage through territory I and my allies had helped you gain, etc. etc. etc. If you had been anywhere near me this game, I might have attacked you immediately in order to send a "MetaGame" message.
That makes sense--to hog everything on Kyushu when only 146 GP is necessary. Hmmmm...
I don't know when I went royal--turn 5 or something.
I was always allied with the Ikko Ikki, certainly, but the victory coalition can have three in it. Would make sense, really, for three powerful lords to unite.
I never said anything about your attitude th island 2) Otomo declared war on me. I ask you with tears in my eyes, what choice did I have?
The "island" I told you to "get off" was the rightful property of my ally, though it now appears you were the instigator of the war between the Otomo and Hokosawa in the first place. Therefore, your claims of being aggrieved by Otomo's declaring war are your usual BS.
EDIT: I'm curious; what "people could have helped me"? The Mogami? The Drama Queen of Hojo? I negotiated with the parties that could have aided me the most though I did not know that they were already in your pocket i.e. the Amako and Ikko Ikki. NO other clan could have aided me in any substantial way.
Originally posted by no1marauderAlready pitching for the next game? I thought you said this one wasn't over yet.
I don't think you ever tried to contact me this game though it's possible. In MD, you were as worthless as an "ally" to me as anybody could have been; folding after one battle reverse (caused by your own incompetence), failing to send ships into an utterly crucial battle in the Adriatric when you had promised to, eventually giving my enemies passage thro ...[text shortened]... the Amako and Ikko Ikki. NO other clan could have aided me in any substantial way.
Originally posted by PalynkaWhat part of this didn't you understand:
Already pitching for the next game? I thought you said this one wasn't over yet.
I have no illusions; if the balance of forces remains as lopsided as it is now, you and the Monks will win (maybe you'll let a third player in in your mercy). There's little to be done when the majority of the players in a game decide that they are going to help two players win at any cost.
I also note that you scoffed at the idea that any pre-game alliances had been made, but now BDN has admitted that he was allied with nook "before the game". It must be tiresome to be wrong so often, Pal.
Originally posted by no1marauderI noticed that. I actually find it unsportsmanlike and yes, I'm surprised Bosse would do it. Bad Bosse! Bad!
What part of this didn't you understand:
I have no illusions; if the balance of forces remains as lopsided as it is now, you and the Monks will win (maybe you'll let a third player in in your mercy). There's little to be done when the majority of the players in a game decide that they are going to help two players win at any cost.
...[text shortened]... t he was allied with nook "before the game". It must be tiresome to be wrong so often, Pal.
That said, my intentions for this game were never to win, that would be only be a great bonus (deserved for what I've done, obviously 😛). Why?
Well, it's the first time I played such a game and I was territorially between Ikko and Uesugi, not to mention that I've started with a fleet in a landlocked province that I had to disband and had no intention of going royal (didn't even know that existed at the time).
My purpose was to learn the most possible and possibly be on the winning side. Obviously I wouldn't last long if I didn't ally myself with one of my stronger neighbours since I knew nothing of the game. Bosse happened to be close.
So my primary objective is already achieved and surpassed and I feel I have been extremely lucky with the ally I've chosen as he shared much more knowledge than he needed to. Repaying him with what little help I can provide sounds only fair to me.
Besides, I'm looking forward to learn more about invasion in the South since the North fell with two or three surgical strikes and only needed sweeping afterwards. I'm hoping it's different there.
Originally posted by no1marauderWrong.
NO other clan could have aided me in any substantial way.
You could have had an intensely loyal ally secretly positioned to strike at the heart of your far enemy at the time and place of your choosing.
If only you had the imagination to see that.
So much friendly conversation...
A few corrections about the turn just played, and about our game in general...
1/ The attack from Kotto by Ryuzoji and Ito was no "feint"... as he attempts to spin it. The Amako comprehensively defeated them. Brave lord Ryuzoji saw one solitary Amako ronin standing all by himself and therefore felt that it was probably safe to attack.... Ito was with him after all.
2/ Had I stood in Susuma Hongo my army would have been destroyed. Glorious yes but not appropriate at this time. The odds were in the Kyushujin's favour. All three of the axis of evil were there in force.
3/ All this arguing over who attacked who... The Kyushujin are the aggressors. Clearly.
I did not declare war on any one of them, they all canceled their alliance and then attacked me.
Lord Otomo only recently, though.... as he has been too busy dying on Hosokawa swordtips while selfless and supportive Lord Ryuzoji watches with the utter disinterest the egregious disdain he exhibits to all his slaves.
4/ My lord and my allies have been as supportive as they could considering how far away from me they are...
5/ ... which geographical fact was no doubt observed by brave lord Ryuzoji when he decided to fight me instead of support the Otomo, whom he continues to leave unsupported while using all his resources and those of his slaves trying to push me out of Iwami.
6/ Oh...
and Susuma Hongo has changed hands a couple of times now
The Ryuzoji also retreated from it rather than contest it with me at one time.
But that was quite a few turns ago in fact...
The clever lord Ryuzoji hasn't achieved much to justify doing nothing to assist Lord Otomo, has he?
Talking out of character for a moment...
This was my very first game and it has been tremendously enjoyable.
I don't think anyone is getting upset so much as being passionate about the twists the game has taken...
It all could have been very different. There were no inevitabilities really.
I can only speak for myself, but so much seems down to conversations that happened early in the game... and commitments that were clung to stubbornly thereafter...
What if no1marauder had spoken to me earlier...?
What if goats and starman not gone at it in Shikoku...?
Regrets?
Not taking out the Hatano as soon as I was provoked. It wouldn't have been easy, but it would have been fun.
oh well...
Originally posted by PalynkaPerhaps counselling can help you with your self-esteem issues; playing in a game where your intentions "were never to win" is rather sad. Also all realms at the start were in a roughly equal position, so you had no "stronger neighbors" in game terms. That you assessed them as "stronger" says more about your state of mind then the game situation.
I noticed that. I actually find it unsportsmanlike and yes, I'm surprised Bosse would do it. Bad Bosse! Bad!
That said, my intentions for this game were never to win, that would be only be a great bonus (deserved for what I've done, obviously 😛). Why?
Well, it's the first time I played such a game and I was territorially between Ikko and Uesugi, not t ...[text shortened]... urgical strikes and only needed sweeping afterwards. I'm hoping it's different there.
Originally posted by no1marauderLearn how to read.
Perhaps counselling can help you with your self-esteem issues; playing in a game where your intentions "were never to win" is rather sad. Also all realms at the start were in a roughly equal position, so you had no "stronger neighbors" in game terms. That you assessed them as "stronger" says more about your state of mind then the game situation.
Originally posted by drakkarI was allied with you by the 3rd turnfile, how much "earlier" should I have spoke to you?
Talking out of character for a moment...
This was my very first game and it has been tremendously enjoyable.
I don't think anyone is getting upset so much as being passionate about the twists the game has taken...
It all could have been very different. There were no inevitabilities really.
I can only speak for myself, but so much seems down to conv ...[text shortened]... as soon as I was provoked. It wouldn't have been easy, but it would have been fun.
oh well...
Kyushu declared war on you because you are a vassal of our enemy, who you declared to me was going to be shogun when I asked for assistance on Shikoku in return for territorial concessions in previously held Mori territory (along with an offer to help you take their capital). Waiting for you and the Ikko Ikki to complete your preparations to enter the war against Kyushu (which you were bound to do) was decided to be imprudent by the Kyushu Alliance. You have proven to be a particulary inept adversary though. If you truly believe that I had no idea that your ronin spearman could be reinforced with far greater forces than we had available be happy in your delusion. The whole Kotto operation is a feint, akin to the landings in Hungarian territory King Phil and I made in MD.
Originally posted by PalynkaPal: My purpose was to learn the most possible and possibly be on the winning side. Obviously I wouldn't last long if I didn't ally myself with one of my stronger neighbours since I knew nothing of the game.
Learn how to read.
Pal: That said, my intentions for this game were never to win,
I did.
Originally posted by eagles54Why, it's so quiet that one can hear the footfalls of michi-oshie across the temple grounds...
Wrong.
You could have had an intensely loyal ally secretly positioned to strike at the heart of your far enemy at the time and place of your choosing.
If only you had the imagination to see that.
http://www.www.richard-seaman.com/Insects/Japan/Beetles/Tiger/TigerBeetleOnPebbles2oClock.jpg