Originally posted by ark13I agree. I really don't even care if my opponents cheat; playing chess engines is fine, only it gets boring because you usually get the same type of positions. So if I come to the conclusion my opponent is cheating I might just not play her anymore. And if she is cheating and I don't know, it doesn't matter to me at all! I say good for her, although I hope it doesn't give her problems like self esteem, personally I have a self esteem problem which you can read about in the help forums unless you beat me to it! Also playing a chess engine can help to improve your game, and since correspondence chess is better than classical/speed chess, it is better than playing your computer a game.
I'm sorry if my point wasn't clear. I wasn't saying that we shouldn't have game mods, as I clearly stated at the bottom of my post. I said I wasn't sure of my opinion. My post was just something for people to consider when making up their own minds on the issue. We have to realise that we're not going to be able to catch the occasional cheaters that ...[text shortened]... t thing to do something about, and the cheats are mostly hurting themselves, rather than others.
I don't expect people to adopt my views, it is fine to not like playing a computer at chess. I'm just giving a bit of perspective. And always remember what chess is (although there are more specific definitions!): a recreational activity involving one or more players [taken from wikipedia©]
Originally posted by Bowmann"This player is only accepting challenges from players with a rating below 0"
You make it sound like a girls' game.
edit his opponents name is, i think &#nbsp; which, believe it or not, I actually tried to make my username when I joined the site! I tried lots of others, but it only accepted english letters and numbers (no greek latin or others for example õš and no ²'s or ∞'s. how boring!
Bowmann, chess is a girls game! Men should be outside. Not playing chess outside, just... well ok, men can be inside as long as what they are doing is manly. Chess is never manly.
This thread began with some percentages given on how often some players moves matched Fritz 8. What percentage of matches is too high for a given players rating? For me personally once outside of the opening I doubt if I usually match up more than 30-40% of the time, maybe less, I’ve never taken the time to check. For a player rated 1800+ you would obviously have a much higher percentage of matches, when would it start looking suspicious? What percentage of your moves matched the engine (on average) no1marauder?
Originally posted by chessnut57Personally I don't believe a raw percentage match is enough to indicate a cheater. I think the best way to decide is to look for certain tell-tale 'engine only' moves. You see, chess engines play differently than humans in some positions (endgames especially). Finding a couple of moves that engines like but any sensible person can see is bad is a good indicator. Of course there are also 'human only' moves. Sacrifices and positional considerations that good players make based on intuition but are beyond the calculating ability of engines. A couple of those would indicate a non-cheater.
This thread began with some percentages given on how often some players moves matched Fritz 8. What percentage of matches is too high for a given players rating? For me personally once outside of the opening I doubt if I usually match up more than 30-40% of the time, maybe less, I’ve never taken the time to check. For a player rated 1800+ you would obviou ...[text shortened]... looking suspicious? What percentage of your moves matched the engine (on average) no1marauder?
Raw engine match could be used to find potential cheaters but it is not the be all and end all. Some games have long forcing variations in which even an average player will have a high match.
Originally posted by no1marauderI really don't see how cheat-nazi's are going to improve the site.
I give up; screw you people. The "do-nothings" always seem to prevail over the ones who want to improve the site. I'm tired of this BS.
You could just believe that everyone doesn't cheat. You can't prove it one way or another anyways...
It's not like if someone cheats the world is going to end.
Don't you think there are too many laws and regulations as it is? It's a game. Accept it as a game.
Anyone who's so interested in their rating that they feel they have to hunt down cheats who could lose them a couple of meaningless points, has obviously got greater issues to deal with than being cheated on.
Like...getting a life...par example!
*Sticks tongue out*
Originally posted by shavixmirThe fact is that cheating is NOT part of the game.
I really don't see how cheat-nazi's are going to improve the site.
You could just believe that everyone doesn't cheat. You can't prove it one way or another anyways...
It's not like if someone cheats the world is going to end.
Don't you think there are too many laws and regulations as it is? It's a game. Accept it as a game.
Anyone who ...[text shortened]... al with than being cheated on.
Like...getting a life...par example!
*Sticks tongue out*
If you don't give a damn about being beaten by a real player or by a computer doesn't mean that cheating is right and that's a minor issue,don't forget that we're on a chess site...............
All other sites have a hard policy about cheating,why Rhp shouldn't have a strong policy about it?
Are we the dumbest on the web where everyone can come here and cheat?
There seems to be a lot of arguments along the lines of: 'It's only a game, relax man!'.
This is fine, I have basically the same outlook about chess.
BUT.
You have to remember, people pay $30 a year to play against other people on this site. That's what it boils down to in the end.
If some of the more serious chess players feel cheated because they're playing engines here, they will leave - Meaning less money to keep it up and running for us 'chess peasants' to push pieces around willy-nilly.
Here's a scenario:
What if RHP became known as a cheaters paradise on the Internet? How many people will pay to play here? How many of us will renew our subscriptions?
Cheaters are bad for the site.
Whether you care about your rating or not.
Just to clear up:
I volunteered my name to the Game Mods because I wouldn't mind helping out. I don't know anything about game analysis, I don't own any engines - hell I can barely play the bloody game!
I said I wouldn't mind helping out if there was any administration etc. and I can ban an admitted cheat just as well as someone rated 2000+
Originally posted by RavelloThe most laid back.
The fact is that cheating is NOT part of the game.
If you don't give a damn about being beaten by a real player or by a computer doesn't mean that cheating is right and that's a minor issue,don't forget that we're on a chess site...............
All other sites have a hard policy about cheating,why Rhp shouldn't have a strong policy about it?
Are we the dumbest on the web where everyone can come here and cheat?
The best discussions.
The nicest people.
The funniest threads.
Let the other sites get all paranoid if they want to, just leave me outta it!
Originally posted by RavelloI agree with Rav, just because some of us are less concerned with our ratings, does not mean that we should sit back and allow cheats the run of the site. A lot of people put a great deal of effort into their game and their rating is important as it is a marker of how their gameplay is. If they are constantly having to play engine users, the hard work they put in to developing their game is a wasted effort. Those of us who don't use engines are suffering at the hands of rating-addicted cheats. Whether it's 'just a game' or not, we all have a duty to get rid of cheating to support those fellow players who don't use engines.
The fact is that cheating is NOT part of the game.
If you don't give a damn about being beaten by a real player or by a computer doesn't mean that cheating is right and that's a minor issue,don't forget that we're on a chess site...............
All other sites have a hard policy about cheating,why Rhp shouldn't have a strong policy about it?
Are we the dumbest on the web where everyone can come here and cheat?
I don't care about my rating, I just enjoy the social aspect, but that does not stop me from being annoyed that next to nothing is done to remove people who are wilfully and regularly breaking the ToS, and making a mockery of good sportsmanship, it's an insult to honest users.
Anyone using an engine is a pathetic mooron and I hope some day they'll be ashamed at themselves, unlikely I know, but here's hoping.
Originally posted by shavixmirNo one brought you in,if you want to be left "outta it" just don't read threads about cheating.
Let the other sites get all paranoid if they want to, just leave me outta it!
YOU came in this thread to discuss it, but if you don't care about the issue why did you bother?
Other sites are not "paranoid" (the real paranoid it's you,paranoid about the "control freakery" as you call it),other sites respect the customer who pays $30 or whatever fee and try to give the customer the best service they can.
I don't see why Rhp shouldn't.
Originally posted by RavelloI'm not in a good mood today.
No one brought you in,if you want to be left "outta it" just don't read threads about cheating.
YOU came in this thread to discuss it, but if you don't care about the issue why did you bother?
Other sites are not "paranoid" (the real paranoid it's you,paranoid about the "control freakery" as you call it),other sites respect the customer who pa ...[text shortened]... fee and try to give the customer the best service they can.
I don't see why Rhp shouldn't.
So let it be known. Should I EVER notice somebody checking my games for cheating (not that it's likely considering my score), I will be so pissed off, dismayed, upset and insulted that I will spam the no-good freak for the rest of eternity.
The mere idea of having my integrity questioned is enough to blast me off into 30.000 word hate mails.
So there.
My final words on the matter.
It's beyond me why people use an engine. They're obviously of the personality type that wants to succeed no matter what, and the end justifies the means. Weird to do that on a 'mere' chess site. They should be out falsifying a medical degree or something, it would be more productive.
On one level I can understand saying "well, that's their lookout if they're that stupid and get satisfaction from something they didn't really do". But I think I lean towards the view that the practice should be stamped out. Pretty close to zero tolerance, so long as the warnings are clear. Put that part of the Terms of Service in flaming six foot high letters, and then follow through.
Just think about the hypothetical scenario that engine use was open and public. Who would you choose to play? Given the choice (ie not tournament games and such) I wouldn't bother playing against people who use an engine, except once in a while. What's the point of playing more than one person who's using the same engine? If there are 100 people who all use Fritz8, I might play one of them to see what it's like, but unless they suffer from some kind of inability to input data to the program I could play 100 very similar games.
Whereas against a human opponent I am guaranteed a unique gaming experience. Which is what makes RHP somewhere to return. I can play games against far more opponents than I could by joining my local chess club.
So, on that basis alone engine use is bad for the site. It's boring.