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no1marauder
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As most of you are aware, about six months ago, Russ decided to create a group of Game Mods ("cheat police"😉 to investigate allegations of engine use on this site. As one of many members who aggressively pushed for this measure, I think it's time to review the system that has been put in place. IMO, it is a flawed one and it's high time to put an effective system together to combat, as much as possible on an internet chess site, engine use.

The problems we currently have lie mainly in the failure of the Site Admins to take seriously the suggestions of experienced players has to what would be necessary in an effective group of Game Mods. If you review the discussions in December, it was generally agreed that a Game Mod team was needed of experienced players with a good knowledge of the various engines. The biggest problem right now is that the "team" consists solely of Dave Tebb and Phlabby. While no one is more qualified than Dave, Phlab is certainly not a strong player (sorry buddy). In addition, the job is too big for only two volunteers; it was originally envisoned that the team be at least 5 players or more. The analysis of games to find overwhelming proof of engine use is time consuming and difficult but the site had no shortage of individuals who volunteered to do this necessary work. More Game Mods are essential.

Second, a decision was made that those found guilty of engine use would be banned, but the fact of their being banned never be made public. I cannot disagree more with this wrong headed decision. First, knowing that you will be publically branded a cheat if it is found by OVERWHELMING evidence that you are one, would have a significant deterrent effect. The main reason for cheating must be for these individuals to project an over-inflated image of themselves to the rest of the community; what could be more deflating than the possibility of public scorn? Second, players have a right to know if they were playing against an engine; otherwise they may make incorrect assessments of their skill level and improvement level. I note that I have recently begun playing on another server which routinely makes announcements of usernames who have been deleted for using engines. I see no good reason for keeping such information secret AFTER a determination of cheating has been made and believe publicizing it would serve the useful purposes outlined above.

As someone who just finished analyzing all my finished games to date using a Fritz8Deluxe, I can tell you that there are players that I have played who always match up with Fritz first choice or a very close equivalent move (less than .05 difference) 80% or more with several reaching into the very high 80% and one 93% overall in a statistically significant number of moves (at least 50 and in some cases several hundred). Engine use remains alive and well on this site and a reform of the Game Mod team is desperately needed. I have sent some analysis to them, but it is apparent they have a large backlog and little can be expected for a long period on specific complaints. This is not acceptable to me and should not be acceptable to the majority on the site. So, I ask for the following:

1. Expansion of the Game Mod team to at least 6 individuals, the majority of whom should be strong, experienced players; and

2. Public notification when a user has been banned for engine use. This would also be tangible evidence that something is being done.

I would like to know what others think as this issue is causing me to seriously question whether I will re-subscribe or not.

N
The eyes of truth

elsewhere

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I have to agree that the game mods have been "too quiet" since their inception. Very little is being communicated to the users on this site. I don't know if anyone ever was found to be cheating and banned from this site through use of their analysis. I know some self admitted cheats were booted.

I also agree that the game mods should consist of experienced stronger players who are capable of deep analysis of a game. Obviously someone much stronger then myself, and I'm sorry phlabibit, but I agree. The game mods should all be rated at least 1900. They must have an understanding and experience with structured book/databse moves and the depth in which those openings will lead you. I have had users hint at moves I've made when I'm still into the opening. I've told people they can look the moves up in the mco-14 book and see for themselves. When questioned about certain games I have demonstrated where the game I was studying from could be found online. The game mods must understand the difference between a studious player and one who just uses an engine.

I'm not really for a wall of shame thread or anything that outright, but if and when a user is banned for engine use I expect the profile to reflect it. That way if they dissappear the opponents will know why. I expect their opponents to get the points for those games also. people have a right to know who was an engine and who was'nt because if their studying their past pgn or applying it to a database they should be able to notate that it was engine use for certain moves.

We definately need more communication fom the game mods though, Because we're all standing around wondering what happened t you guys...

Nyxie

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Originally posted by no1marauder
As most of you are aware, about six months ago, Russ decided to create a group of Game Mods ("cheat police"😉 to investigate allegations of engine use on this site. As one of many members who aggressively pushed for this measure, I think it's time to review the system that has been put in place. IMO, it is a flawed one and it's high time to put an eff ...[text shortened]... hers think as this issue is causing me to seriously question whether I will re-subscribe or not.
I agree totally with two caviats ; 1 -If site admin is not going to make public the names of cheaters who are caught and subsequently banned , they should not prohibit serious allegations(backed with evidence as strong as yours) from being made publicly against a member . IE -If you No1 bring allegations against player "smith123" , the evidence , and he his later banned with no public notification from site admin ; then a clear chain of events is still established for deterent value . 2 - There should be a system of re-enstating/re-embersing lost rating points , tournament wins , etc . The idea that the cheaters are not allowed to profit is agreed on unanimously , but the idea that the 'victims' should not be penalized has largely been ignored .

s
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Originally posted by no1marauder
As most of you are aware, about six months ago, Russ decided to create a group of Game Mods ("cheat police"😉 to investigate allegations of engine use on this site. As one of many members who aggressively pushed for this measure, I thi ...[text shortened]... using me to seriously question whether I will re-subscribe or not.
Well, you own a Fritz, you're rated over 1900, and you certainly don't have a problem publically insulting others.... Why don't you volunteer?

F
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Originally posted by no1marauder
As most of you are aware, about six months ago, Russ decided to create a group of Game Mods ("cheat police"😉 to investigate allegations of engine use on this site. As one of many members who aggressively pushed for this measure, I thi ...[text shortened]... using me to seriously question whether I will re-subscribe or not.
When the vote for the cheat police was opened, it quickly became a farce. IMHO it turned into a popularity contest. The fact that Starrman got 15 votes (no offence) compounds this. It would be interesting to see how much experience Starrman and players such as Chess Kid1, TimmyToilet, Crowley, mrmist and The Master 37( who doesn't even exist as far as i can tell (all of whom applied to become game mods, and all of whom got votes) have in analyzing chess games and noticing moves that computers make. The fact that players such as these (and again no offence) actually got votes in this tells me that it was nothing more that a vote to see who was the most popular on RHP.

The other thing that annoyed me about the game mods was that when the list of mods was released only one of the top 3 players voted for were actually on the list. One of these was TRACKHEAD31 who seemed to me to be a perfect candidate to stand alongside David Tebb. The other was grayeyesofsorrow, who also seemed like a perfect candidate; having extensive knowledge of chess computers and being one that analyzed regularly with chess machines. Why neither of these players was chosen to be in the teams is beyond me (except possibly TRACKHEAD31[ i don't agree with the reason but can understand it]...but were not allowed to talk about that are we!!!), and the fact that the RHP community who had pressed for the "cheat police" so hard were not informed why their votes had been effectivly discarded just makes it worse.

The players chosen instead were Zuhmdahl, Phlab and I think SteveC. none of these players were well known as being very competent players e.g. "cheat police" material. Why wasn't Mephisto2 chosen?

from the message accompanying the vote: "The final decision will be made by the site administrators, but the community's opinion will be very influential."

...hardly. Mephisto2 got the 4th highest number of votes get was not on the list whereas Zuhmdahl, who only got 23 votes was included.

Some serious changes need to be made to the game mods. If we were able to know who had been chucked then I think that everyone would be much more aware of the game mdos and the influence that they are having with in the community. As it stands at the moment, no one quites knows what is going on. Has a certain high rated player just left the site or have they been banned??? We need answers!

Ragnorak
For RHP addons...

tinyurl.com/yssp6g

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Why wasn't Mephisto2 chosen?
Mephisto2 withdrew the offer of his services before the end of the voting.

D

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Eastbourne

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na...let ppl cheat.

Its their life.

N

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Originally posted by celticcountry
na...let ppl cheat.

Its their life.
They can do it somewhere else... At my level of play I don't worry much about cheaters - I am still pretty much a beginner, and if someone should feel the need to use an engine against me, I guess I'd rather feel sorry for them than be angry. But I understand that better players have different feelings about this, and the changes no1marauder suggested make sense to me. What really baffles me is why some people cheat on a site like this - after all, there's nothing else than rating points to gain, and you can't buy anything for those. But obviously some people do it anyway.

no1marauder
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Originally posted by celticcountry
na...let ppl cheat.

Its their life.
http://www.timeforchess.com/vote/result.php?voteid=2

shavixmir
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N

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F
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Originally posted by no1marauder
http://www.timeforchess.com/vote/result.php?voteid=2
how some people can be undecided or against this idea is beyond me!

s
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Originally posted by Freddie2004
how some people can be undecided or against this idea is beyond me!
How someone can take 15 edits on a one-line post is beyond ME!

😉

shavixmir
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Originally posted by Nordlys
Well, at least almost all people have arseholes. I don't see what this has to do with the topic at hand, though. I take it that you are against game mods? Why?
Because I don't like control freakery.

You can't stamp out cheats, so why bother? It's only a bloody game.

d
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Originally posted by seraphimvulture
Well, you own a Fritz, you're rated over 1900, and you certainly don't have a problem publically insulting others.... Why don't you volunteer?
didn't you learn anything at all from The Phantom Menace? or Germany 1933 for that matter...

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