Originally posted by JeeI'm not catholic and I have not the foggiest idea what the religion was of the person who presented it but I believe he is not a catholic and he certainly was not white. What are you? Racist! What does colour have to do with what is right and what is wrong?
So you're admiting talking about something without having a clue about it. So I presume the only infos you got come from the white catholic boys in charge of the news out there.
What do you know then? The inquisition? The Crusade? The colonisation in name of christianity? The acceptance of the Final Solution, the coverups and acceptance for the child abused b ...[text shortened]... a muslim country and you'll learn a lot about tolerance, and how far Islam is from radicalism.
I don't need to know what Islam stands for and frankly I don't care but I do know that too many Muslims preach hatred in the name of their religion and that by any civilised standard is unacceptable.
I am not supporting the inquisition or the crusades and colonisation was not necessarily in the name of christianity but all these things are now consigned to history and the world has moved on. Stop letting past imagined injustices fester and move on also together to face a bright free future where we can all live in peace and prosperity.
What final solution are you talking about? The holocast? Unacceptable! Wromg! but history!
Child abuse! It happens by priests and imrans (?) as well as others I am sure. What about the injustices of arranged marrages and child brides in the Islamic World. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone comes to mind. Such actions by who ever perpetrated by are wrong and the guilty should be bought to justice but you cannot condemn a whole country for such sins.
Where are millions to die because of the blindness of the church? I don't understand this!
Don't tell me to spend a month in a Muslim country when I have spent over 10 years in one and I saw very little tolerance!
Originally posted by JeeIf people want to wear a bloddy (whatever that is) man still nailed to a cross round their neck so what? It doesn't harm me! How does it harm you? It is that level of intolerance that I find unacceptable.
People wearing around their neck a bloddy man still nailed to a cross?
Hello?
Like Billy hicks used to say: what do you think is the last think jesus ever want to see if he ever come back to earth? Its like JFK fans weraing necklace with a riffle on it.
Just portrayting jesus as a caucasian man is disrespectful enough as a start.
Stop watching TV, go there!
So must we portray Jesus as a black man! Come on stop being racist! In those days the people living in the part of the world Jesus came from were caucasian so it is probable he was also but does it matter? Why do so many "blacks" think that if someone is portrayed as white it is racist but if they are portrayed as black it is not? Does colour matter? It is you, not I that is racist!
Err "Go there!". Sorry mate I've been there - I might live in UK now but for 28 years I did not and I know a damn site more than you about how the rest of the world lives. ... and by the way, I rarely watch TV and it certainly does not formulate my views.
so you've spent over 10 years in a muslim country and dont know anything about muslims or their religion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well I remember in Bangkok bumping into an american that was there for 25 years and still didnt talk a word of thai.
I guess you see what you want to see...
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Originally posted by badmoonBut the question is, have you. . . i'll say that again.. Have YOU read the ENTIRE transcript of the Pope's speach, or are you like most of those commenting on it, only read the part that is claimed to be offensive ?
A transcript of the pope's remarks obtained by The Associated Press television network reads: "In the seventh (sura, or chapter of the Quran), the emperor comes to speak about jihad, holy war.
"The emperor certainly knew that Sura 2, 256, reads: 'No force in matters of faith'. It is one of the early suras, from a time -- as experts say -- in which Mohamm iary.
I see there is already a lengthy discourse about this in the Debate forum.
Originally posted by badmoonGood argument, nicely thought-through, researched, and set-out. Well done!!!
What's with this fool calling the teachings of Mohammed evil.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." Nice going Pope.
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundDo you really think that one single person here trashing and moquing Islam has ever read the Quran
But the question is, have you. . . i'll say that again.. Have YOU read the ENTIRE transcript of the Pope's speach, or are you like most of those commenting on it, only read the part that is claimed to be offensive ?
People have higher aspirations here:
"So I can spend a month in Saudi Arabia or Iran and wear slacks and no covering on my head, and be treated well?"
Originally posted by JeeWhat has that got to do with anything ?
Do you really think that one single person here trashing and moquing Islam has ever read the Quran
People have higher aspirations here:
"So I can spend a month in Saudi Arabia or Iran and wear slacks and no covering on my head, and be treated well?"
Have i trashed islam ?
The question was put because people seem eager to have an opinion of the pontiff based on media hype, and not on the actual facts.
The fact of the matter is that effigies have been burned, and insults thrown (like the title of this thread), about something people know nothing about.
When you have read the pope's entire speech, not just the bit that everyone is talking about, then come back with an informed opinion.
Seriously, i am not a religious man, but all this rebel rousing is getting a bit boring.
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundI 'ate roycism, I do.
What has that got to do with anything ?
Have i trashed islam ?
The question was put because people seem eager to have an opinion of the pontiff based on media hype, and not on the actual facts.
The fact of the matter is that effigies have been burned, and insults thrown (like the title of this thread), about something people know nothing ab ...[text shortened]... n.
Seriously, i am not a religious man, but all this rebel rousing is getting a bit boring.
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Originally posted by David CI believe the intent was to polarize us. He had to know it would result in a huge public outcry. It seems natural enough for the Pope to quote the bible, but I think the public would have interpreted it much differently if he just came out and said, "Islam is bad". Then, when the Muslims turn against him, the Catholics band together against a common enemy.
Why was he doing that, precisely?
I could be way off here, but if any of this is true, I can't say that I agree with the concept. On the other hand, the Muslims need to learn to chill.
Originally posted by JeeYou said that Muslims are tolerant. I say that Muslims maybe *tolerant* of non-Muslim males under certain circumstances, but that there's no way I would be tolerated in those countries -- thus negating your claim. I'm not talking academic tolerance, I'm talking about true, live-and-let-live tolerance. I'm not mocking Islam, but your narrow arguments and world view. And yes, I have studied world religions at a university, so I'm not totally ignorant.
Do you really think that one single person here trashing and moquing Islam has ever read the Quran
People have higher aspirations here:
"So I can spend a month in Saudi Arabia or Iran and wear slacks and no covering on my head, and be treated well?"
Originally posted by reader1107ok, how come I am tolerate in those countries and you aint? And I aint muslim or any other religion
You said that Muslims are tolerant. I say that Muslims maybe *tolerant* of non-Muslim males under certain circumstances, but that there's no way I would be tolerated in those countries -- thus negating your claim. I'm not talking academic tolerance, I'm talking about true, live-and-let-live tolerance. I'm not mocking Islam, but your narrow arguments an ...[text shortened]... iew. And yes, I have studied world religions at a university, so I'm not totally ignorant.
Do you assume that if there's a problem it has to come from the other person?
Gonna tell you a story. I was in Morocco when I was 8yo and the guy that teachs the imam told me once "I dont believe in people going to the mosqee, I dont believe in people going to church or temple. Those are people who only want to show to the others how great believers they are. Your faith is the most personal thing that you have in you. Dont talk to it, dont share it and dont try to convince anybody of it"
Later on, he let me assist to one of those "people tribunal" - dont know how to translate it exactely and you had that good muslim that went there to tell to the lil jury of imams that his wife was bad, and wearing makeup and stuff like that. So they said to him to talk to her and tell her that those things upset him. And off he went.
Then the same guy told me "you see this guy, he's not upset about his wife. He just wants to pretend that he cares more about Islam than any other muslim"
And he add "if you dont know him, looking at him you will think he is a Master - having domination on his wife. But if you know him you discover soon that he is a slave and coward, begging for approaval from the imam"