Cheating accusations

Originally posted by z00t
I did not ask for 2300 games in general there are loads in the British Championship of which I have the pgns. Show me some of the games of your friend specifically where 9 out of 10 moves of his match up with a top engine (not GnuChess). You do not appear to understand the difference between 2300/2500 and 2700 (whose moves would be expected to match top engines ...[text shortened]... e difference in Gormally's game with that of Adams may I ask, (assuming you know who they are)?

I know both well. In fact I have played the former.

The player whom I hoped to get on board was at one time better than Gormally although Gormally has shot ahead lately.

The same player has some of his games in BCM.

In any case as I said earlier the 9 out of 10 statement was an off the cuff remark made by him. Neither him nor I is going to be bothered to sit down and analyse them against an engine to see exactly how many moves match up.

I say again the point was that he (along with some other top players I know) seemed reluctant to sign up for fear of being accused of cheating. That is actually the issue that needs to be addressed rather than do or don't their moves match up, is he or isn't he 2350 / 2450 / 2550 at correspondence chess, etc.

It seems to me there is a way to do this. When you subscribe, if you have a recognised grading then you disclose your name, grade and evidence of grade (a reference to you on the BCF grading list would suffice). This fact could be made available to everyone in your profile and if your play is at or even slightly above this level it would be clear than cheating is not an issue.

Contrary to what some people seem to be suggesting, it is quite possible to have a much higher rating at correspondence chess than OTB. In fact I can also (coincidentally?) think of a Guildford 4NCL player, about 2350 FIDE, a relatively weak IM (I stress the word relatively), who became a strong GM at correspondence chess and indeed, I believe, reached the World Top Ten at one time. I should point out that this all took place a long time before the silicon era!

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
I know both well. In fact I have played the former.

The player whom I hoped to get on board was at one time better than Gormally although Gormally has shot ahead lately.

The same player has some of [b]his games in BCM.

In any case as I said earlier the 9 out of 10 statement was an off the cuff remark made by him. Neither him nor I is going t ...[text shortened]... play is at or even slightly above this level it would be clear than cheating is not an issue.[/b]

The guy does not even play here and already there’s a discussion over his rating. Why would he want to get involved in this nonsense? If you think you are playing an engine and don’t want to, just resign and move on. It’s not the end of the world.

On some sites you set your own initial rating based on how good you think you are. Set it too high and you’ll quickly drop. Set it too low, and you will have to slog through a hundred games to get it up where it belongs. (I think there's some kind of "law" that says your rating will go down quicker than it goes up). Set it about right and you’ll be playing people of similar ability. You will enjoy the games more because there won’t be the frustration of either losing all the time or having to play people way below your strength. Very few players, even 1500’s, want to make a practice out of beating 1200’s all the time.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
I know both well. In fact I have played the former.

The player whom I hoped to get on board was at one time better than Gormally although Gormally has shot ahead lately.

The same player has some of [b]his games in BCM.

In any case as I said earlier the 9 out of 10 statement was an off the cuff remark made by him. Neither him nor I is going t ...[text shortened]... play is at or even slightly above this level it would be clear than cheating is not an issue.[/b]

Then this thread is in fact pointless. You could have told us that the world is round or that the sun rises in the east rather than try to fool us with some skulldudgery.

Originally posted by z00t
[b]Then this thread is in fact pointless. You could have told us that the world is round or that the sun rises in the east rather than try to fool us with some skulldudgery.[/b]

If the world is round, how do you know where east is?

Won't you just keep going round and round and round ?

🙂

What if you took the world map and shifted everything to the right on the map. Wouldn't east then change? Heck, Canada could be in the east then instead of the west.

Originally posted by RahimK
If the world is round, how do you know where east is?

Won't you just keep going round and round and round ?

🙂

What if you took the world map and shifted everything to the right on the map. Wouldn't east then change? Heck, Canada could be in the east then instead of the west.

Agreed and who the hell decided that north is north and that down under is really under and not above. How can the North-East Teritories be below the equator.

and are you sure the world is not flat? Thousands believe it is!

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
Agreed and who the hell decided that north is north and that down under is really under and not above. How can the North-East Teritories be below the equator.

and are you sure the world is not flat? Thousands believe it is!

Ah really? Then how come your ears have not fallen off your face or do you need to ask your 2300 rated grandmaster friend? Or are you working out which of his games matches 9 out of 10 engine moves?

You cannot be that pompus can you? Bombshell - There is no "friend" is there? You were on some ego trip.Any self-respecting decent chess player would not go shooting off his mouth in that manner.

Originally posted by z00t
Ah really? Then how come your ears have not fallen off your face or do you need to ask your 2300 rated grandmaster friend? Or are you working out which of his games matches 9 out of 10 engine moves?

You cannot be that pompus can you? [b]Bombshell - There is no "friend" is there? You were on some ego trip.Any self-respecting decent chess player would not go shooting off his mouth in that manner.[/b]

What is your point?

Our club does have an OTB team. We meet regularly. I know dozens of 2300+ players. How on earth is that an ego trip? Whos shooting their mouth off?

The point is I am trying to convince them to join RHP but with the sort of postings that I am seeing here I can quite understand why they don't want to.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
What is your point?

Our club does have an OTB team. We meet regularly. I know dozens of 2300+ players. How on earth is that an ego trip? Whos shooting their mouth off?

The point is I am trying to convince them to join RHP but with the sort of postings that I am seeing here I can quite understand why they don't want to.

Your the one who started this silly thread and now your complaining? You made ludicrous comments about 9 out of 10 moves and the tenth better than an engine ... Have you got short memory or something?

My point is that you should not start silly threads with laughable and wild assertions. No reasonable person would want to make a fool of themself in such a manner.

Can you dig it?

Originally posted by z00t
Your the one who started this silly thread and now your complaining? You made ludicrous comments about 9 out of 10 moves and the tenth better than an engine ... Have you got short memory or something?

My point is that you should not start silly threads with laughable and wild assertions. No reasonable person would want to make a fool of themself in such a manner.

Can you dig it?

You clearly have not read anything here but for clarification as you seem to have difficulty here is my initial post. The critical part of the thread is the bit in bold. The bit in italics we have already determined was a tongue in cheek spur of the moment comment that is not relevant to his main area of concern as it is unlikely he would match it to this extent.

I have been trying to convince a very strong player I know. ELO 2350 OTB with a couple of GM norms to his name and 200-300 points above that at correspondence chess to join RHP. He plays in the 4NCL here in UK which is the top national league frequented by many GMs.

He won't join because he claims he will be accused of cheating as 9 out of 10 moves he makes are the same as an engine would choose and the 10th move he makes is better!

Suggestions would be welcomed. We need players like this but he is being put off.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
You clearly have not read anything here but for clarification as you seem to have difficulty here is my initial post. The critical part of the thread is the bit in bold. The bit in italics we have already determined was a tongue in cheek spur of the moment comment that is not relevant to his main area of concern as it is unlikely he would match it to thi ...[text shortened]... /i]

[b]Suggestions would be welcomed. We need players like this but he is being put off.[/b]

Maybe you are not trying hard enough. Incidentally you might have mislead us on his rating. If the likes of Short and Adams (both over 2650) feature on sites that I play at, maybe your friend is actually rated 2950. He is so special that he can match 9 out of 10 engine moves so he must be ranked way over Soort or Adams who play without incident.

Originally posted by z00t
Maybe you are not trying hard enough. Incidentally you might have mislead us on his rating. If the likes of Short and Adams (both over 2650) feature on sites that I play at, maybe your friend is actually rated 2950. He is so special that he can match 9 out of 10 engine moves so he must be ranked way over Soort or Adams who play without incident.

Perhaps he is Kasparov in disguise?

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
Perhaps he is Kasparov in disguise?

After that board to his head and russian attacks he needs a disguise!

Can you sign my board? O sure, here you go.

What's in the newpaper? O really! Smash, board hits head = Kasp. out.



Lighten up guys. More important things then arguing over silly things.

Surely this issue must have already come into play already with top players joining, or current top players. I would venture to guess that the top 5-10 players at RHP would have a pretty good idea if they are playing the real thing or not. I dont think you get that good without having experienced that many times throught their chess career. Ask Akizy.

Originally posted by Dragon Fire
I can accept this but how do I convince him.

I really want the guy on board (in our clan to be honest) and just cannot convince him. Maybe a previous post was correct? Maybe it is an excuse and he just doesn't want to play here and it is easier to say he is concerned about such accusations than just telling me no!

Yes. people usually have the emotion first (ie doesn't want to join RHP) and then rationalise it to themselves and others.( ie by giving logical explanations). Ask anyone who is successful in advertising!