Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    23 Sep '06 21:46
    I have been trying to convince a very strong player I know. ELO 2350 OTB with a couple of GM norms to his name and 200-300 points above that at correspondence chess to join RHP. He plays in the 4NCL here in UK which is the top national league frequented by many GMs.

    He won't join because he claims he will be accused of cheating as 9 out of 10 moves he makes are the same as an engine would choose and the 10th move he makes is better!

    Suggestions would be welcomed. We need players like this but he is being put off.
  2. 23 Sep '06 22:06
    thats a hunk of fish
  3. 23 Sep '06 22:08 / 1 edit
    I suggest he's not interested in joining but is good at making excuses to you!
  4. 23 Sep '06 22:17
    I think he's probably right.
  5. 23 Sep '06 22:28
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    I have been trying to convince a very strong player I know. ELO 2350 OTB with a couple of GM norms to his name and 200-300 points above that at correspondence chess to join RHP. He plays in the 4NCL here in UK which is the top national league frequented by many GMs.

    He won't join because he claims he will be accused of cheating as 9 out of 10 moves he ...[text shortened]... is better!

    Suggestions would be welcomed. We need players like this but he is being put off.
    Doesn't sound like he is interested in Rhp. Does he play at any other CC sites?

    I don't think anyone would accuse him if they know his real OTB rating etc...

    Same with online sites, if you register as a Gm or whatever, yes your moves will match up with some engines but they won't accuse you unless it's crazy 100% always.
  6. 23 Sep '06 22:32
    Well,

    if he did get banned, and he honestly didn't cheat, he should consider it a compliment...
  7. 23 Sep '06 22:41
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    ...He won't join because he claims he will be accused of cheating as 9 out of 10 moves he makes are the same as an engine would choose and the 10th move he makes is better!

    Suggestions would be welcomed. We need players like this but he is being put off.
    Hello
    How do you know that the moves he makes come from a chess engine ?
    Just curious to know your method
  8. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    23 Sep '06 22:43
    I think the answer would be to have some way that very strong players could prove who they were and what their OTB rating was to the "moderators" so that it would be known that their play was genuinely at the level achieved here.

    I remember when I fisrt joined RHP I read about someone being banned that many members were claiming really was that strong OTB. I think we need to accept that very strong players will match strong engines regularly but that there are some key positions (for example known forced draws that an engine would not recogise) where an engine would mess up and this would prove beyond any doubt that an engine was being used. You could, however, never guarantee that such a position would arise.
  9. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    23 Sep '06 22:45
    Originally posted by HFRorbis
    Hello
    How do you know that the moves he makes come from a chess engine ?
    Just curious to know your method
    He uses an engine to assist with the analysis of his OTB play and therefore knows its choices. His rating is genuinely achieved OTB so that is in no doubt what-so-ever.
  10. Standard member GalaxyShield
    Mr. Shield
    23 Sep '06 22:56
    Just give proof of him to Tebb or any of the game moderators. Maybe Tebb knows who he is already, too(?),
  11. 23 Sep '06 23:01
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    I think the answer would be to have some way that very strong players could prove who they were and what their OTB rating was to the "moderators" so that it would be known that their play was genuinely at the level achieved here.

    I remember when I fisrt joined RHP I read about someone being banned that many members were claiming really was that strong ...[text shortened]... n engine was being used. You could, however, never guarantee that such a position would arise.
    They would need really good proof.

    Jean H. Remember him.

    If I was a moderator I would be extra cautious about that incident.
  12. 23 Sep '06 23:05
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    He won't join because he claims he will be accused of cheating as 9 out of 10 moves he makes are the same as an engine would choose and the 10th move he makes is better!
    He needs a better engine.
  13. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    23 Sep '06 23:16
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    He won't join because he claims he will be accused of cheating as 9 out of 10 moves he makes are the same as an engine would choose and the 10th move he makes is better!
    true, some people will always think strong players are cheating. but the game mods know what they're doing, and people are banned only after they're proven to be engine users beyond reasonable doubt. that's done through statistical analysis over many games.
  14. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    24 Sep '06 09:42
    Originally posted by wormwood
    true, some people will always think strong players are cheating. but the game mods know what they're doing, and people are banned only after they're proven to be engine users beyond reasonable doubt. that's done through statistical analysis over many games.
    I can accept this but how do I convince him.

    I really want the guy on board (in our clan to be honest) and just cannot convince him. Maybe a previous post was correct? Maybe it is an excuse and he just doesn't want to play here and it is easier to say he is concerned about such accusations than just telling me no!
  15. 24 Sep '06 11:35
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    I have been trying to convince a very strong player I know. ELO 2350 OTB with a couple of GM norms to his name and 200-300 points above that at correspondence chess to join RHP. He plays in the 4NCL here in UK which is the top national league frequented by many GMs.

    He won't join because he claims he will be accused of cheating as 9 out of 10 moves he ...[text shortened]... is better!

    Suggestions would be welcomed. We need players like this but he is being put off.
    Let me get this straight. Is he claiming that 90% of his moves in OTB games match the top choices of an engine? If so that's a higher match-up than most 2600 rated Grandmasters. But the guy is rated 'only' 2350.

    Or is he saying that 90% of his moves in correspondence games match an engine? If he is rated 2350 OTB but 2600 or so on correspondence sites, then he is outperforming his OTB rating by a large margin. I can understand why a lot of players will be sceptical.

    I don't want to discourage him from joining, but if 90% of all his moves are the same as an engine, it's very likely that he will be accused of cheating and there is a definite risk of being banned.

    If he gave his real name to the site admin and game mods then that would help them reach a correct decision, but the plain fact is that anyone who plays so much like an engine is always going to be suspected of being an engine.