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  1. 03 Nov '06 15:10
    Having played this person a few times I must say I never suspected a thing.

    Without accusing the moderators of anything would it be possible to see some evidence?

    Its not that I think they have got it wrong but as someone who plays regular OTB and RHP chess I can't see anything in any of my games (and I have gone back to look) that might make me think "wow this guy is cheating!!"
  2. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    03 Nov '06 15:27 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    Have a look at a few of his early games on the site:

    Game 470644
    Game 464816
    Game 491449

    His graph only shows last 300 games, if it showed the whole history the 'improvement' would be shown as the dodge fest it really is.
    Of course this is not proof in itself but I'm sure the game moderators will have used the usual method o the time this has taken. People have been raising there suspicions about him since 2004.
    Those are the games of a beginner (and my favorite a Grob but he can't play it correctly).

    But beginners can improve rapidly so it would be interesting to see his progression from this elementary chess to his "current" level. I would expect to see a gradual improvement as he climbed the rankings. Of course his opening could improve dramatically, quickly as he started using books and databases but you would not expect a quantum leap in performance on middle game tactics and end game.

    He did lose a lot of games including one to our top player Game 2252287 mind you his exchange of his rooks for queen looks like a typical computer move as the strength of the 2 rooks down that open b file looks decisive and I would have expected most strong players to avoid
  3. Standard member malinga
    That would be me
    03 Nov '06 15:31
    Originally posted by Sicilian Smaug
    Have a look at a few of his early games on the site:

    Game 470644
    Game 464816
    Game 491449

    His graph only shows last 300 games, if it showed the whole history the 'improvement' would be shown as the dodge fest it really is.
    Of course this is not proof in itself but I'm sure the game moderators will have used the usual method o ...[text shortened]... the time this has taken. People have been raising there suspicions about him since 2004.
    Looked at those games. He was a Queen-out merchant! Always a bad sign.

    I've played him, found him rude and unhelpful so good riddance I say
  4. 03 Nov '06 15:31
    I see your points!

    BUT

    I joined the site having not played chess for 15 years. Literally. Now being employed and having cash I have bought a lot of books (eg amateurs mind) that I never would have been able to buy as a junior.

    As such I would hate for people to look at my early games on the side and assume I'm cheating just because I studied and improved.

    Thats why I think, perhaps, the publication of a little bit of evidence would be a good idea. I suppose it would "demystify" the whole process.
  5. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    03 Nov '06 15:33
    Originally posted by malinga
    Looked at those games. He was a Queen-out merchant! Always a bad sign.

    I've played him, found him rude and unhelpful so good riddance I say
    He would be unhelpful if using an engine as he would not know anything.
  6. 03 Nov '06 15:35
    I think also one thing that does make me a little suspicious is that he rarely posted in the forums.

    I dont want people assuming that im suggesting anyone who doesnt is automatically a cheat but to be THAT good and not the slightest bit interested in imparting advice, responses etc...makes me wonder!

    I just cant help myself i suppose. I have to open my big gob!!!
  7. 03 Nov '06 15:35
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    Those are the games of a beginner (and my favorite a Grob but he can't play it correctly).

    But beginners can improve rapidly so it would be interesting to see his progression from this elementary chess to his "current" level.
    [/i][/b]
    The complete beginner games were from early 2004. I doubt if anyone could have improved that much in 2 1/2 years. His game against Scott is a weird one!
  8. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    03 Nov '06 15:37
    Originally posted by Fat Lady
    The complete beginner games were from early 2004. I doubt if anyone could have improved that much in 2 1/2 years. His game against Scott is a weird one!
    It is isn't it? Some very strange moves that Scott capitalised on that just don't seem right. I will ask Scott about it.
  9. 03 Nov '06 15:38
    Actually it makes very good sense. Hes crap IRL and was cheating.

    i suppose we have our evidence really dont we?
  10. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    03 Nov '06 15:42
    Originally posted by Tengu
    I think also one thing that does make me a little suspicious is that he rarely posted in the forums.

    I dont want people assuming that im suggesting anyone who doesnt is automatically a cheat but to be THAT good and not the slightest bit interested in imparting advice, responses etc...makes me wonder!

    I just cant help myself i suppose. I have to open my big gob!!!
    No I agree. I think genuinely good players or even moderate club players in the 1800-2000 category do try and help, not just in the forums but in the games as well. There is no harm once the damage is done imparting a little friendly advice which most of us appreciate.

    Even 1500 rated players here can often discuss games sensibly so to be rated 2000+ and not willing or able is unusual.
  11. 03 Nov '06 15:44
    Yeah its so true. At my club we are always going over games etc..

    It helps you improve and gives you a different perspective on things. I consider it the most valuable part of the game!!
  12. 03 Nov '06 15:46
    Mind you, some regular forum posters have been banned - Jean Hebert (apparently not the real one!) and Mary Ann for instance.
  13. 03 Nov '06 15:50 / 1 edit
    Although I agree that GauravV's games are highly suspicious. I also agree with Tengu that making the methods of discovering cheaters secret will make people feel uncomfortable, especially genuinely strong players who are worried that they will be suspected.

    I am aware of the argument that revealing the methods will help cheaters to make it "appear" that they are not, but how do we know they aren't able to do that anyway? Some people might have guessed how moderators detect them and taken action against it.

    If you get falsely accused of murder, you would expect to see evidence. Not the judge say, "Sorry, we can't reveal our methods, otherwise it would help other people to commit murder and get away with it".
  14. 03 Nov '06 16:17
    I'm with Tengu...I came back after an absence and am at 1675 which was about my last rating at OTB many years back but I went from 1450 to 1675 quite rapidly here.
  15. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    03 Nov '06 16:17
    Originally posted by lausey
    Although I agree that GauravV's games are highly suspicious. I also agree with Tengu that making the methods of discovering cheaters secret will make people feel uncomfortable, especially genuinely strong players who are worried that they will be suspected.

    I am aware of the argument that revealing the methods will help cheaters to make it "appear" that th ...[text shortened]... our methods, otherwise it would help other people to commit murder and get away with it".
    Look come on, if kasparov told the world how he studied then all his opponents would be able to prepare for him! The police don't disclose how they catch pedophiles, if they did then loads of them would get away with it!! Take a look at the games Sicillian smaug posted, it doesn't take a genious to work out that he was BLATANTLY cheating! Look at all the tournie wins. take a peak at the "tournament players hall of fame" thread in the tournaments forum. He wasn't even on it 8 months ago, now he's top! He won like 20 tournaments in 6 months...