Playing Strength of Cheaters

Just curious, after losing two games to SoulSaxy (recently banned for cheating). z00t has a game in another thread where SoulSaxy left a piece on prise. z00t explains it by saying SoulSaxy had computer problems and (apparently relying on his own strength) played the rest of the game like a rank beginner. I have known strong players in the past to be banned for cheating. These guys, i guess pressed for time with a hundred plus games, resorted to using an engine. SoulSaxy seems to be at the other end of the spectrum. When he was playing me he messaged stuff about sports. Nothing about chess. He lives up in Connecticut, you can see his username all over the internet. Apparently he must have spent lots of time on internet because he participated on so many sites. On one site he said he was interested in "board games." A chess player usually doesn't say that. A strong chess player usually focuses on chess, having little time for anything else. I was wondering how many cheaters just plug in Fritz or Crafty and simply copy the moves, having absolutelely no idea what's going on in the game.

Soulsaxy played Blackjack and apparently told him he was having computer trouble. See the game for yourself here - Game 3836511

The one I played is Ivan Ivanovitch who kept checking me while there was only one place I could go and one place he could go. I offered him a draw which he ignored and I had to use the site claim draw feature.

playing strength of cheaters?? WAY below average... i bet i could beat 90% of the enigine users on here that had to play fair...

I should have suspected something when SoulSaxy said, "If you move here, I do this, that, and this..." What he was doing was reading the line of best moves from Fritz or Crafty or some other engine. Good players don't tell you what they're going to do, they just move. I guess the cheater thinks, boy will he think i'm bright if i read off the whole line down to mate.

Originally posted by buddy2
I should have suspected something when SoulSaxy said, "If you move here, I do this, that, and this..." What he was doing was reading the line of best moves from Fritz or Crafty or some other engine. Good players don't tell you what they're going to do, they just move. I guess the cheater thinks, boy will he think i'm bright if i read off the whole line down to mate.

Originally posted by buddy2
I should have suspected something when SoulSaxy said, "If you move here, I do this, that, and this..." What he was doing was reading the line of best moves from Fritz or Crafty or some other engine. Good players don't tell you what they're going to do, they just move. I guess the cheater thinks, boy will he think i'm bright if i read off the whole line down to mate.

Originally posted by Kepler
In the two games I played against SoulSaxy he didn't want to discuss anything chess related, kept bombarding me with suggestions for websites I might be interested in and did not want me to resign at all, he wanted to checkmate me. I thought it was slightly odd at the time.

I think the type of person who sees the torture of chess improvement as 'fun', won't be interested in cheating. even getting average at chess requires a ridiculous amount of commitment, blood, sweat and suffering, and I simply don't think the kind of people that cheats has what it takes. they're lightweights, and we're quite obsessed no matter how you look at it.

I will have to disagree with Dragonfire. I would never point out anything or suggest anything during a game. Even if it's a forced mate in three or whatever, i will let the game take its course. Unless, of course, if my opponent asks something specific about a move or position,then i might give an opinion. It has happened to me a couple of times that my opponent will, without prompting, say I should have done this or that instead of the move i made. It just sounds arrogant and unsportsmanlike to make a comment about a specific move. These comments can run the gamut from "That was an idiot move you just made" to "I fear you've gone off on the wrong direction here." I think it's perfectly acceptable to discuss the game after it's over, especially when the weaker player seeks advice. But to make a derogatory comment about a specific move during the game is not a good idea.

They are not necessarily total fish. I personally knew one otb mid-1400 player against whom I played a CC game and he was rated near 2000. A mutual friend told me the guy confessed to him that he had been using an old CM 2100 program for years. I don’t know why he never upgraded. I also know two mid-1850 players who are between 2100-2275 and I am 99% sure they use assistance. They have stalled out at that level because, as has been pointed out by others in previous posts, most probably they only run the engine 2-3 minutes before making their move and at that time on a home pc most engines probably only play at that level. Thus when they play legitimate 2200+ they may or may not win. I know of one 2100+ otb player who has an international CC rating of around 2400 but that’s as high as he seems to be able to go even with an engine. A couple years ago I played in one e-mail tmt. before I knew engines were allowed on the site. They let me enter based on my official US CC rating (around 1950 at the time). I drew with two 1900’s and lost to four 2100 players. I think the 1900’s were legit but checking the finished games of the others with Fritz at 1-1/2-2 min. a move they chose the first choice every time. Still they couldn’t get past 2100-2200 on the site. The moral is an engine will only get you so far.

I'm somewhat dumbfounded that ANYONE would get online and play chess only to use a chess engine to win. I don't understand the logic or the sportsmanship of it. Simply amazing.

What's more amazing is that really they are not listed by name and even if they were, others would think it was a moniker anyway. Where's the glory in that? For some reason, the type of person I picture doing this would be like that guy from the Geico commercial that doing silly things to a webcam and then the narrator says there's a better way to spend 15 minutes online...

There's a lot of crazy things that so called intelligent people do that defy normal logic. How about a bunch of doctors ramming an explosive packed car through an airport window in order to kill as many innocent men, women, and children as possible. Compared with that, cheating at chess is child's play.

When i played SoulSaxy he talked to me about websites and nothing about chess...except when i made a bad move he told me that i shouldnt have done that! There is another playere here, that is 2100 that has done the same to me, it will be interesting to see if he gets banned in the next few weeks as well!! He also rattles on lines as if he is reading them from an engine, but whatever, what can you do!?!

I've had very few people ever comment on a specific move just made. SoulSaxy was one of the few and i didn't like it. I debated whether to write back and tell him to just play the game and keep his mouth shut, but getting involved in this kind of banter is pointless. Lots of times i've had general discussions about lots of things. One of my opponents told me it was his policy not to discuss anything during a game, but later it was ok. There's a social aspect to playing chess which shouldn't be left out, an interaction above and beyond the game. That's why rhp has the ability to exchange messages. I don't see why people shouldn't inquire about their opponents. I enjoy asking people where they live, what's it like, what their opinions of such and such or whether they play live chess in their town. it just makes playing more enjoyable.

i hate cheaters just as much as an average person and maybe even more.
to cheat even once is bad and doing it repeatedly well thats terrible.

with that said what if someone is using an engine for the purpose to see how it stacks up against human opposition. some people might care less about their ratings but might be intrigued by an engines performane.

at the same time my answer to that would be why ruin others fun just so you can try or gain something.