@metal-brain saidThe equivalence principle certainly doesn't need a "considerable amount of time" to explain and if it took him a "considerable amount of time" to explain then that would indicate he doesn't understand it nearly as well as I do. I understand the equivalence principle and know it isn't the same thing as time dilution just as gravity isn't the same thing as time dilution so don't know where you are going with this.
Greene spends a considerable amount of time explaining the equivalence principle.
Are you now claiming time dilution IS the equivalence principle?
If so, you now would have according to you;
time dilution IS gravity.
time dilution IS the equivalence principle.
Therefore
gravity IS the equivalence principle.
Which is all utter rubbish because both premises clearly false.
@metal-brain
In my OWN words ONLY, the equivalence principle is as follows;
If someone was locked in a room with no windows, and with no way to see what is outside and even if he had unlimited measurement instruments but short of being able to see outside because they can only measure conditions inside the room, if he felt an apparent force of gravity, the equivalence principle is the principle that neither him or those measurement instruments could determine whether that apparent force of gravity is as a result of real gravity because the room is on the surface of a planet or if that apparent force of gravity is false gravity because the room is inside a spaceship at perfect constant linear acceleration with no give-away vibrations thus, at least in that narrow sense, gravity is equivalent to acceleration.
Note how the above is a very SHORT simple clear layperson explanation of what is the equivalence principle thus proving that not only do I understand it perfectly but also proves that you do not need a "considerable amount of time" to explain it. Also note how there is no mention of "time dilation" in it because that has nothing to do with it.
-Note that the equivalence principle doesn't imply gravity is equivalent to acceleration in every sense but rather they are only in some ways equivalent. As an example of a sense which they aren't equivalent; it is possible to have acceleration of something without true gravity involved, such as an acceleration of a spaceship well away from any significant gravity well, thus, at least in that narrow sense, the two aren't equivalent. That doesn't in any way contradict the sense the equivalence principle says they are equivalent.
@humy said"The equivalence principle certainly doesn't need a "considerable amount of time" to explain and if it took him a "considerable amount of time" to explain then that would indicate he doesn't understand it nearly as well as I do. "
The equivalence principle certainly doesn't need a "considerable amount of time" to explain and if it took him a "considerable amount of time" to explain then that would indicate he doesn't understand it nearly as well as I do. I understand the equivalence principle and know it isn't the same thing as time dilution just as gravity isn't the same thing as time dilution so don't k ...[text shortened]... ity IS the equivalence principle.
Which is all utter rubbish because both premises clearly false.
You are claiming to know more about GR than Brian Greene?
LOL! 😆
"The math shows things are drawn to locations where time elapses more slowly."
Time dilation for certain. The math shows that. Brian Greene is correct and you all are wrong. Pouting will not change that.
@metal-brain saidIt is NOT impossible. VERY Difficult but not beyond the physics we already know. Antimatter rockets we already know can reach half the speed of light. THAT generates time dilation.
A spacecraft is not capable of going that fast. It is simply impossible.
Also, I think it is Elon Musk starting the stardrive program where a small chip with a small mirror gets crazy acceleration from a laser beam and gets to around 20% of c and THAT will cause a small time dilation.
He wants to send a fleet of them to Alpha Centauri, and at 20% of c that will take only about 20 years to get there and beam back images and data from that trinary system.
Besides that, any particle accelerator worthy of the name gets ions very very close to c and that has proven time dilation affects so is there yet another way you can move the goalpost, put out more strawman posts?
When you join the cult of some dude where you like his ideas you stick to them like glue, regardless of their credibility and I am not suggesting Greene has lost credibility but I don't think mainstream scientists would agree with him on this time dilation idea of his.
It is MASS that causes time dilation, mass and velocity. It is an effect, not a cause. Otherwise going close to c would not cause time dilation but that kind of thinking doesn't matter to you at all does it?
@sonhouse saidYou are wrong. Antimatter rockets do not exist and even if they did they cannot travel nearly as fast as an electron. Simply impossible.
It is NOT impossible. VERY Difficult but not beyond the physics we already know. Antimatter rockets we already know can reach half the speed of light. THAT generates time dilation.
Besides that, any particle accelerator worthy of the name gets ions very very close to c and that has proven time dilation affects so is there yet another way you can move the goalpost, put out more strawman posts?
You are making stuff up that is absurd.
Here are some threads showing how I got it right from the beginning and how the sniveling fearful conformists got it very wrong. Whodey asked a question and I was the only person to give him the correct answer.
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/science/gravity.163599
Here is a quote by Kazetnagorra that shows how wrong he was:
"You seem to have a tough time finding a job for someone who is supposedly smarter than all the physicists.
Time dilation has nothing to do with gravity, or with "matter" per se. It follows from special relativity, which does not take gravity into account. It occurs because the laws of physics are presumed to be the same in all inertial frames of reference."
Notice how condescending he was. He could not have been more wrong.
Here is another from Deepthought on the second page of the link above:
"No it doesn't. I don't know where you got this notion that gravity is due to time dilation, but I strongly suggest you try another reference."
Humy could continue denying reality and bring more attention to the failures of just about everyone on this forum except me, but it will make all of you look so incompetent maybe someone should advise him to give up the fight. All of your reputations depend on that. Really!
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/science/scalar-or-not-scalar.177919
@metal-brain saidspaceships that use antimatter don't YET exist. But they may one day exist.
Antimatter rockets do not exist
...and even if they did they cannot travel nearly as fast as an electron.yet another completely idiotic assertion of yours; An electron can travel at any one of many different possible speeds anywhere from zero speed to arbitrarily extremely 'close' to c but still just slightly under c. If an electron is moving very slow, say 1mm/s, why can't a spaceship that uses antimatter as fuel go faster than that?
Notice how condescending he was.condescending or not, he was right and you are wrong and you are condescending by making out you know better than the physicists here so you are a hypocrite.
@metal-brain saidI was talking about engineering projects that are in the works and the laser one is in the works and the powerful laser they will use will impart something like 30,000 G's of acceleration and reach 20% c in less than an hour.
You are wrong. Antimatter rockets do not exist and even if they did they cannot travel nearly as fast as an electron. Simply impossible.
You are making stuff up that is absurd.
And you sidestepped any mention of particle accelerators, which happens to be my field, the machine I spent near 20 years at, the ion implanter, which is an industrial ion accelerator and even THAT machine accels ions to half a million miles an hour in an accel tube less than two feet long.
You really need to back up your claims a bit better. Do some research yourself instead of relying on your cult buddies.
Also, the engineering work already done on antimatter rockets are more advanced, that is closer to reality than fusion rockets.
Antimatter exists all around use and there are plans for antimatter capture sats that would be about 100 meters spherical shaped with something like a chicken wire shell charged to 100 million volts, designed to capture and magnetically store antimatter.
We could build antimatter rockets in a couple of years if we had sufficient antimatter fuel, which we don't ATT but the sat I mentioned could capture milligrams of the stuff and for instance, if you had an antimatter powered rocket it would take only a milligram of the stuff to get a monster rocket like the space shuttle into orbit.
And BTW, antimatter would not directly acel the ship, it would be turned into gamma and other radiation, heat, by just combining with ordinary matter and using that heat to do the work of propellant release.
@humy saidHere is another ignorant post by humy:
spaceships that use antimatter don't YET exist. But they may one day exist....and even if they did they cannot travel nearly as fast as an electron.yet another completely idiotic assertion of yours; An electron can travel at any one of many different possible speeds anywhere from zero speed to arbitrarily extremely 'close' to c but still just slightly under ...[text shortened]... you are condescending by making out you know better than the physicists here so you are a hypocrite.
WOW your combination of ignorance and arrogance simply knows no bounds. So you think you understated relativity? -your above nonsense assertion proves you certainly don't at it is complete and utter gibberish to anyone with a physics degree.
"Please show all us scientists that we are all wrong just simply by showing us ANY real science link that says or clearly implies “Time dilation causes curvature of space-time” .....
-failure to do this only confirms what we already know."
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/science/gravity.163599/page-2
Humy was completely wrong and still claimed to be right and added condescending rhetoric without merit. Humy was a moron just like deepthought and kazetnagarra. They all got it wrong!
Deepthought made this comment:
"Why don't you try publishing your idea that time dilation causes gravity?"
Had deepthought had known that was the basis of GR he would have known Einstein did that 100 years ago. What a complete ignoramus! Again, more condescension without cause. Pathetic!
Then humy says this:
"There are people far smarter than you are that can but you would have insufficient intelligence to understand any of it."
Yet I am the only person who understood time dilation causes thing to fall. Who is smarter than who?
then deepthought make this idiotic comment:
"Physics departments get sent people's home spun fundamental theories all the time."
Imagine Einstein's GR being called a home spun fundamental theory? Before he knew it was the basis of General Relativity he claimed it was a fringe theory not worthy of consideration!
Deepthought the moron!
Then humy says this:
"NO expert on relativity would agree with your assertion."
As it turns out Einstein first made the assertion. LOL!
The hubris is amazing!
Then Fabian Fnas made this comment:
"I think DeepThought knows what he's talking about. We can trust him."
"But he could not trust him. Deepthought was wrong, so wrong he should be very embarrassed, not to mention unhappy humy bringing attention to deepthought's failures.
Then humy says this:
"General trust of the experts/semi-experts that know a lot more about various things than he does is one thing he doesn't have. But, for the life of me, I just simply cannot understand why. He just seems to automatically assume that he must know better and his opinion on it couldn't possibly be wrong and, yet, it usually is."
This is the same flawed logic humy always uses, blind faith. What a complete moron!
Humy has also used this flawed logic in regards to global warming. FAIL!
http://www.briangreene.org/portfolio/light-falls/
Brian said "that tiny time warp is why things fall. Objects do not want to age. The math shows things are drawn to locations where time elapses more slowly."
humy would have you believe "that tiny time warp" is not time dilation. It is. Back to reality. Consensus means nothing. They were all wrong and I was right. I'm sure suzianne and duchess thought that meant I was outed from the science forum though, hence the thread "is this a verifiable claim" in a vain attempt to embarrass me.
Time dilation is why things fall. Global warming is mostly natural. Stop fighting facts with ad hominem attacks!
@metal-brain saidThis sums up your condescending attitude to people, especially experts, much smarter than me and you just because they don't share your non-expert opinions. Deepthought is way smarter than me and you and, unlike me and you, he is a real EXPERT on relativity and thus, when he says something about it, he knows what he is talking about. When you call us all condescending you also show all of us that you are a hypocrite. So all your ranting and raving in you last two posts has NEGATIVE propaganda value for you. So who is being the moron now?
Deepthought the moron!
@humy saidBrian Greene is the real expert. Very prominent as well.
This sums up your condescending attitude to people, especially experts, much smarter than me and you just because they don't share your non-expert opinions. Deepthought is way smarter than me and you and, unlike me and you, he is a real EXPERT on relativity and thus, when he says something about it, he knows what he is talking about. When you call us all condescending you also s ...[text shortened]... d raving in you last two posts has NEGATIVE propaganda value for you. So who is being the moron now?
Look in the mirror.
I'll give you a fair chance to impress us all though. Explain how you would improve Brian Greene's explanation. Why do things fall?
@metal-brain saidHe is An expert. So is deepthought.
Brian Greene is the real expert.
And you have yet to prove that Greene said/implied that time dilation IS gravity (your claim, not his). Greene, being a real expert, would no doubt ALSO disagree with your claim that time dilation IS gravity, which is just a nonsense claim to anyone that knows the first thing about relativity and a claim which he would say he never made.
We also explained to you how, according to special relativity, time dilation can occur without gravity thus disproving you claim that time dilation IS gravity (a moving clock, even well away from any significant gravity well, will tick more slowly than stationary ones; Proof that time dilation is NOT gravity. How is that NOT proof?). No doubt Greene, an expert on this, would be fully aware of this aspect of special relativity and would make the same point to you (or words of the same effect) as we did.
So you make no point.
Deepthought is also a REAL expert on relativity. So why don't you listen to what HE says about it? The default assumption should be if an expert disagrees with you on something you are not an expert on, unless you have GOOD reason to think otherwise (which in this case you don't), the expert is the one that is probably right and you are probably wrong. This is always my default assumption and it should be yours.
@metal-brain saidRight, I see what you are saying now. The weak field limit. In that limit gravity is time dilation. If the field is stronger then there's more to it. You used the word cause - the actual cause is the matter content generating the field.
http://www.briangreene.org/portfolio/light-falls/
Brian said "that tiny time warp is why things fall. Objects do not want to age. The math shows things are drawn to locations where time elapses more slowly."
humy would have you believe "that tiny time warp" is not time dilation. It is. Back to reality. Consensus means nothing. They were all wrong and I was right. I' ...[text shortened]... n is why things fall. Global warming is mostly natural. Stop fighting facts with ad hominem attacks!