Originally posted by KellyJayI didn't quote it at all. I referred to a particular verse. There is no rule that says to refer to something that you have to quote it.
It proves you have not quoted scripture properly if at all.
Kelly
Maybe you should focus on comprehending the bible next time you read it.
Originally posted by KellyJay
I never said it did makes it more suitable, I said two things on that
topic.
1. If it is there for a reason, I do not know what that reason is.
2. If it is a matter of degrading and it came about due to the system
failing over time, it is simply a matter of degrading.
Kelly: Remember, this is the 'Science Forum.' That means you have to strive to justify why
you believe something is the case. With respect to #1, you offer nothing to support it. So,
there is no reason to believe it or hold it to be true. It's a baseless hypothesis, of which there
are an infinitude. Science deals with supportable hypotheses.
As for #2 you keep repeating the same thing and offer no 'why' or even 'how.'
As far as your notion God has to give man the best eye sight is
bogus, God has to give man what man needs nothing more.
The 'Intelligent' Designer gave an octopus a better eye than a human. Why? If you don't
believe it's better, then why?
Beliefs are held for reasons. You haven't even offered your own reasons for holding them,
much less reasons why they are better than other beliefs about the issue.
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioHaving never looked through the eyes of an octopus or lived in the
Originally posted by KellyJay
[b]I never said it did makes it more suitable, I said two things on that
topic.
1. If it is there for a reason, I do not know what that reason is.
2. If it is a matter of degrading and it came about due to the system
failing over time, it is simply a matter of degrading.
Kelly: Remember, this is the 'Science F ...[text shortened]... much less reasons why they are better than other beliefs about the issue.
Nemesio[/b]
environment they do for as long as they have, I'd say I don't know
if their eyes are better than mine or not. Maybe you can speak to
that through some experience?
With respect to my claims about the eyes being better in the past,
I have given you reasons for that belief, you just blow it off. The main
reason as I have have pointed out to you can be found in one word,
entropy. Complex systems do not just arise over time they degrade.
Kelly
Originally posted by FabianFnasNo, I can without a doubt get mean and hateful, and I may have
You criticized me on my English once, Kelly, remember? Were you just funny, or were you mean then?
treated you that way too. I like kidding more and almost always
regret letting my anger get the best of me, and typically attempt to
come back afterwards if I do and say I'm sorry. Some here; however,
live in that state 24/7 and think nothing of it. If you are looking for
perfection in a poster, I'm not it.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJay
Having never looked through the eyes of an octopus or lived in the
environment they do for as long as they have, I'd say I don't know
if their eyes are better than mine or not. Maybe you can speak to
that through some experience?
Experience is not the only way to extrapolate information, KellyJay. Given that neither of us
can look through an octopus' eyes, we have to ask 'Why?' This is the question you refuse to
answer, which is why what you do is not 'science' or even 'thinking.'
I can offer a reason why the human eye is inferior to an octopus': the presence of blind spots.
These blind spots obscure vision in predictable and occasionally deeply problematic ways. The
physiology of the eyes, apart from the fibers which form the cord of the optic nerve, are otherwise
identical. There is no reason to believe that the octopus' eye would fare less well in a human
environment than the current human eye.
What can you offer to refute this? More specifically, why should anyone hold what you offer
as better than what I offer?
With respect to my claims about the eyes being better in the past,
I have given you reasons for that belief, you just blow it off. The main
reason as I have have pointed out to you can be found in one word,
entropy. Complex systems do not just arise over time they degrade.
You have just repeated your claim, not offered 'why.' Why do you believe that the human eye
was better in the past? What do you have to support that belief?
Furthermore, why would the fibers move from behind the retina to in front of it, thus creating a
less desirable state for the purposes of survival?
The two systems are equally complex. Your use of the word 'entropy' in this context is utterly
incoherent. So, why would the eye move from one complex system to an equally complex
one which is more detrimental to its survival?
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioExactly how would I know why? You are trully full of yourself if you think
Originally posted by KellyJay
[b]Having never looked through the eyes of an octopus or lived in the
environment they do for as long as they have, I'd say I don't know
if their eyes are better than mine or not. Maybe you can speak to
that through some experience?
Experience is not the only way to extrapolate information, KellyJay. Given tha ...[text shortened]... to an equally complex
one which is more detrimental to its survival?
Nemesio[/b]
you know why. I've offered you reasons why, again you dismiss those
and cling to yours as if they were the only things ever put forward in
this discussion. I told you why I believe the things I do, again ignored.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayYou keep making that statement but have absolutely no evidence to back you up. It is just a statement, your opinion, and that's all the further it goes unless you have something besides, it's that way because I say it is.
Having never looked through the eyes of an octopus or lived in the
environment they do for as long as they have, I'd say I don't know
if their eyes are better than mine or not. Maybe you can speak to
that through some experience?
With respect to my claims about the eyes being better in the past,
I have given you reasons for that belief, you just blow ...[text shortened]... found in one word,
entropy. Complex systems do not just arise over time they degrade.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayWhy can't I find the answer, then? It should start:
Exactly how would I know why? You are trully full of yourself if you think
you know why. I've offered you reasons why, again you dismiss those
and cling to yours as if they were the only things ever put forward in
this discussion. I told you why I believe the things I do, again ignored.
I believe that the human's eye used to be better because of the following
evidence: x, y, z.
or
I believe that the human's eye is designed with blind spots because if
it had the octopus' physiology it would be worse because of the following
reasons: a, b, c.
or
I believe that the human eye used to lack blind spots because of the
following reasons: 1, 2, 3.
Where are the 'whys' in your answers?
Nemesio
Originally posted by KellyJayInteresting that you put forward as your main reason a word you do not understand and a claim that has been proved false to you multiple times on these forums.
The main
reason as I have have pointed out to you can be found in one word,
entropy. Complex systems do not just arise over time they degrade.
Kelly
If you think that entropy implies that "Complex systems do not just arise over time they degrade." you are wrong.
If you think that "Complex systems do not just arise over time they degrade." you are wrong - and in this case you know you are wrong because I have show it to you before - and you have admitted it.
Originally posted by KellyJayNo, I can without a doubt get mean and hateful, and I may have
No, I can without a doubt get mean and hateful, and I may have
treated you that way too. I like kidding more and almost always
regret letting my anger get the best of me, and typically attempt to
come back afterwards if I do and say I'm sorry. Some here; however,
live in that state 24/7 and think nothing of it. If you are looking for
perfection in a poster, I'm not it.
Kelly
treated you that way too.
Yes, I know you can. You've showed us many examples of this.
If you are looking for perfection in a poster, I'm not it.
Yes, we know that, indeed we know. The problem is when someone thinks he always has the truth on his side, and cannot ever back it up, then he is far from perfection.