Originally posted by KellyJayRight now I am challenging your claim:
Your body started with the with the joining of sperm and egg, it had
the luxury of DNA programming causing it to go through a process
that brought you forth. The discussion is about can that type of
coding actually come about (arise) with the process of evolution which
as it has been defined, a aimless, goal-less, thought-less process
and can we look a ...[text shortened]... t type of
coding without a designer? I use designer meaning one that codes
with intent.
Kelly
"Complex systems do not just arise over time they degrade."
Are you admitting that my body did 'arise' over time and during its growth from single cell to adulthood I did not degrade?
Do you admit that your claim is false?
Originally posted by twhiteheadNot at all, I'm saying things just don't arise, what you are describing
Right now I am challenging your claim:
"Complex systems do not just arise over time they degrade."
Are you admitting that my body did 'arise' over time and during its growth from single cell to adulthood I did not degrade?
Do you admit that your claim is false?
is a programmed process. There is a debate on the programming of
the process, if there was ID involved or not, and the answer to that
question answers our discussion. I maintain you cannot show me
something like that, that just arose without effort, planning, and so on.
There is a huge belief evolution is the cause of DNA, but it is only
between the ears of those that believe in it that we have ever really
seen such things. I also maintain that system degrade, again your
computer is part of everything degrading too.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayNow we are getting somewhere. You have avoided defining 'arise' despite me asking several times, but here you appear to be saying that a programmed process that gets more complicated over time is not 'arising'.
Not at all, I'm saying things just don't arise, what you are describing
is a programmed process.
So if evolution is programmed, then you have no problem with it getting more complicated over time or resulting in more complex animals/ features?
So how do you define 'programmed process'?
Is for example the growth of crystals a 'programmed process'? If not then is crystal growth also not 'arising'?
I also maintain that system degrade, again your
computer is part of everything degrading too.
Kelly
But do you, or do you not admit that my body is a system and that from my birth to adulthood it did not degrade?
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou are out to lunch. I'm not carefully avoiding squate.
Now we are getting somewhere. You have avoided defining 'arise' despite me asking several times, but here you appear to be saying that a programmed process that gets more complicated over time is not 'arising'.
So if evolution is programmed, then you have no problem with it getting more complicated over time or resulting in more complex animals/ features admit that my body is a system and that from my birth to adulthood it did not degrade?
You talked about a program once did you not, that isn't something
that just arose, that was a designed product. You have a natural
process that is one thing, but an active complex system with very
active sub-systems and sub-systems and so on, is not something you
see spring up like your crystals?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayYeah, not like an ecosystem or anything... 🙄
You are out to lunch. I'm not carefully avoiding squate.
You talked about a program once did you not, that isn't something
that just arose, that was a designed product. You have a natural
process that is one thing, but an active complex system with very
active sub-systems and sub-systems and so on, is not something you
see spring up like your crystals?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI guess you either didn't have justifiable reasons and didn't bother, right?
I don't care if you think my reasons are justified, I don't beg you to
justify your views. I'm going to give you my reasons for my stance you
can either accept them, or reject them, how you feel about them is
not much of a concern of mine. I've already told you, between the
two of us I think your worries about the eyes comparison is a waist of
time.
Kelly
Nemesio
Originally posted by NemesioMan, where is the grace?
I guess you either didn't have justifiable reasons and didn't bother, right?
Nemesio
I didn't get to it, I didn't offer you any reasons, but "justifiable
reasons" or "didn't bother"... I did other things instead, and sharing
with you what they were isn't something I'm going to do. I did say
I was going to and didn't, so I'm at fault no matter what my reasons
are, my bad.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayNo, an ecosystem is a complex entity that arises over time, and spontaneously at that. Indeed, no individual member of the ecosystem (excluding humans) can be said to be an active designer, and even those ecosystems that involve humans can't be said to be totally the result of human design, except in special cases (like ant farms, aquariums, etc...).
Again, if you are refering to life and how it acts that is the argument
isn't it?
Kelly
Originally posted by PBE6So you say.
No, an ecosystem is a complex entity that arises over time, and spontaneously at that. Indeed, no individual member of the ecosystem (excluding humans) can be said to be an active designer, and even those ecosystems that involve humans can't be said to be totally the result of human design, except in special cases (like ant farms, aquariums, etc...).
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJaySo fix your bad then.
Man, where is the grace?
I didn't get to it, I didn't offer you any reasons, but "justifiable
reasons" or "didn't bother"... I did other things instead, and sharing
with you what they were isn't something I'm going to do. I did say
I was going to and didn't, so I'm at fault no matter what my reasons
are, my bad.
Kelly