I see said the blind man

@KellyJay said
See letters spilled onto a table does not mean in you take those letters and dump them again and again you will have a sentence appear. It is the arrangement of the acids that requires exactness, the fact you see them adds nothing to the process.

so? I just showed you one clue on the way to life origins. This is the stuff life needs to become alive, the combination stuff obviously comes later.

@sonhouse said
so? I just showed you one clue on the way to life origins. This is the stuff life needs to become alive, the combination stuff obviously comes later.

No, it isn’t difficult to find the material in life, the thing, and the only thing is the arrangement of them. It is where we see things could happen through happenstance or deliberate design, with the right quantities, in the right conditions, connecting in the right place, and so on. Having it all put together, coded so it drives the processes.

You are quick to shout, see this is part of the process, we see stuff, but brain-dead to the actual work, where all of the integrated systems with dependencies are driven by the way the “combinations” were put together, so that information drives the processes. Swallow a camel, chokes on a gnat.

@KellyJay said
No, it isn’t difficult to find the material in life, the thing, and the only thing is the arrangement of them. It is where we see things could happen through happenstance or deliberate design, with the right quantities, in the right conditions, connecting in the right place, and so on. Having it all put together, coded so it drives the processes.

You are quick to shout, ...[text shortened]... ns” were put together, so that information drives the processes. Swallow a camel, chokes on a gnat.

ISN'T DIFFICULT? Those results were from launching a rocket way the hell out in the solar system, slam a probe on the face of the asteroid, take off again, fly all the way back to Earth to be caught on the way down and then there was major difficulty getting the rig open to access the valuable cargo and that took MONTHS to figure out a design for a tool that would safely access the guts of the probe without contaminating the dust gathered.

Don't know what it takes for YOU to say something is difficult but if THAT feat was not way up there on the totem pole of difficult I don't know what would be.

THAT is why that discovery was important. Besides the data retrieved, the WAY it was retrieved was nothing short of magnificent.

@sonhouse said
ISN'T DIFFICULT? Those results were from launching a rocket way the hell out in the solar system, slam a probe on the face of the asteroid, take off again, fly all the way back to Earth to be caught on the way down and then there was major difficulty getting the rig open to access the valuable cargo and that took MONTHS to figure out a design for a tool that would safely acc ...[text shortened]... as important. Besides the data retrieved, the WAY it was retrieved was nothing short of magnificent.

And yet, none of that will cause, on its own, all the right material to come together in ways that we see in life. Your imagination plays a huge role in assuming that just having the material in one place automatically means it will come together into something that could become life. You ignore both what is required to do the work and the causes that could halt it through degradation over time. You must think, well, it must happen that way, only because you want to deny design with intent, as if chance and necessity alone could do it, as if a guiding hand were not required.

@KellyJay said
And yet, none of that will cause, on its own, all the right material to come together in ways that we see in life. Your imagination plays a huge role in assuming that just having the material in one place automatically means it will come together into something that could become life. You ignore both what is required to do the work and the causes that could halt it through ...[text shortened]... n with intent, as if chance and necessity alone could do it, as if a guiding hand were not required.

I SAID it was a CLUE. A SINGLE CLUE, just one discovery on the way to understand how life got here.

@sonhouse said
I SAID it was a CLUE. A SINGLE CLUE, just one discovery on the way to understand how life got here.

A clue that you cannot not use in any meaningful way. But you feel like is was meaningful so much so you brought it up.

@KellyJay said
A clue that you cannot not use in any meaningful way. But you feel like is was meaningful so much so you brought it up.

It already IS meaningful in science, knowing complex molecules like amino acids can actually be manufactured in space even in ultracold conditions, high radiation that could destroy them, but here they are anyway,
That raises tremendously the amount of life molecules could be transported by nebula fields and could have hit the solar system billions of years ago peppering the entire solar system in amino acids and that alone is revealing, of course not to a denier like you but to actual unbiased scientists, it means something.

@sonhouse said
It already IS meaningful in science, knowing complex molecules like amino acids can actually be manufactured in space even in ultracold conditions, high radiation that could destroy them, but here they are anyway,
That raises tremendously the amount of life molecules could be transported by nebula fields and could have hit the solar system billions of years ago peppering t ...[text shortened]... revealing, of course not to a denier like you but to actual unbiased scientists, it means something.

Having the pieces has never been an issue; people come up with all kinds of reasons for that, none of which can be validated, but that is not the main issue; the arrangement of them is.

@KellyJay said
Having the pieces has never been an issue; people come up with all kinds of reasons for that, none of which can be validated, but that is not the main issue; the arrangement of them is.

arrangement is not what I am talking about. I am talking about a real possibility of gaseous clouds, nebula and such make seeding of more complex molecules by these gasses moving through a solar system and the entire system getting deposits of material that includes amino acids making it easier for even more complex molecules on some planet close enough to its sun to allow liquid water and may result in life forming but the thing is, if the amino acid generated in space is true it cuts down the timeline spewed out by religious right folks, not enough time, but interstellar amino acids raining down on planets all over the milky way and by extension, ALL galaxies could have interstellar gas clouds seeding planets capable of sustaining life so the number of planets in the universe just gets a major uptick getting freebie amino acids WAY before they could be generated without such clouds.

THAT is a major clue to science, but of course no good to you.

@sonhouse said
arrangement is not what I am talking about. I am talking about a real possibility of gaseous clouds, nebula and such make seeding of more complex molecules by these gasses moving through a solar system and the entire system getting deposits of material that includes amino acids making it easier for even more complex molecules on some planet close enough to its sun to allow l ...[text shortened]... be generated without such clouds.

THAT is a major clue to science, but of course no good to you.

Your imagination can run wild about where you think the building blocks can be found, but unless they are used to build, to get put together, to be arranged, it is a meaningless point. As I said, you can put all of the ingredients in one spot and apply energy, but you cannot explain the specifics of how life’s requirements would be met or how they could be put together. Science has nothing there beyond just-so stories, nice narratives that cannot be confirmed or tested. So you're left with your imagination, which will always be turning out maybe this or that, but never with evidence that could reasonably explain how, in the limited time available, I don't care how much time you want to use, it will never be enough.

@KellyJay said
Your imagination can run wild about where you think the building blocks can be found, but unless they are used to build, to get put together, to be arranged, it is a meaningless point. As I said, you can put all of the ingredients in one spot and apply energy, but you cannot explain the specifics of how life’s requirements would be met or how they could be put together. Sc ...[text shortened]... in the limited time available, I don't care how much time you want to use, it will never be enough.

I am talking about plugging holes in the usual religious arguments about not having near enough time for Earth based molecules to grow complexity.

With the new clue from Bennu (asteroid they did a sample/return mission) it means that short circuits the argument no time for such complex molecules.

Just one more clue on the way to many more clues to come to close the gap to when we see the way life formed and BTW, that doesn't rule out a god who designed the universe to just be amenable to life and all that happened just due to the law of physics which your god may have written into the rules of our universe which would come a LONG TIME before ANY life in our universe could come around.

@sonhouse said
I am talking about plugging holes in the usual religious arguments about not having near enough time for Earth based molecules to grow complexity.

With the new clue from Bennu (asteroid they did a sample/return mission) it means that short circuits the argument no time for such complex molecules.

Just one more clue on the way to many more clues to come to close the gap ...[text shortened]... ules of our universe which would come a LONG TIME before ANY life in our universe could come around.

Yes, you are not looking at this logically; you are out to poke holes in some argument I’m not making.

@KellyJay said
Yes, you are not looking at this logically; you are out to poke holes in some argument I’m not making.

YOU didn't make that argument, it was made by a guy YOU posted here about why God didit in a very scientific looking video. His big thesis was NO TIME for complex molecules to form here on Earth but the hypothesis that some of the material for life is generated already between the stars in exploding stars and the gas clouds they engender.

@sonhouse said
YOU didn't make that argument, it was made by a guy YOU posted here about why God didit in a very scientific looking video. His big thesis was NO TIME for complex molecules to form here on Earth but the hypothesis that some of the material for life is generated already between the stars in exploding stars and the gas clouds they engender.

Yes not enough time and you responded look what we found!

@KellyJay said
Yes not enough time and you responded look what we found!

Yep, any scientific evidence about life origins is AUTOMATICALLY dissed by you.

You don't WANT to see actual scientific developments on life origins, I imagine you think it a waste of time and money but what you fail to understand is developments in science often leads to new discoveries BECAUSE of the recent clues about Amino acid production in interstellar space.