On existence of Mind and Soul

Originally posted by lausey
This is what René Descartes meant with "Cogito ergo sum". The fact that we think gives us the awareness.

I agree that we are a long way from understanding it fully, but here is some food for thought:

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/04/mind_decision

Dear lausey and Taoman,
Thanks for some substantial contribution.
I have before me the reference given by lausey.
Haynes has stated in that news item that "Your brain activity is the physiological substance in which your personality and wishes and desires operate" . Following questions arise.
i)Is it a description of Mind ?
ii) is " Brain activity is a physiological substance" an Oxymoron ? Activity of the brain is an abstract concept.
iii)"Personality,wishes and desires" operate. Any suggestion of "operating" implies a separate entity doing work. Mind?

Originally posted by andrew93
Are these threads (this one and the one on natural selection) an attempt to persuade others there is a God?

Presuming I had such an object in my mind anything wrong in that?
Study of Science has always meant being open minded about all issues. So,if you are a follower of Science and scientific thinking,you should not have any objections.
Galileo was humiliated by churchmen because of his theory of Planetary motion and was made to recant, let us not get afflicted by the spirit of those churchmen and go after somebody who dared to mention the word God..

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Dear lausey and Taoman,
Thanks for some substantial contribution.
I have before me the reference given by lausey.
Haynes has stated in that news item that "Your brain activity is the physiological substance in which your personality and wishes and desires operate" . Following questions arise.
i)Is it a description of Mind ?
ii) is " Brain activity is ...[text shortened]... ires" operate. Any suggestion of "operating" implies a separate entity doing work. Mind?

We are so skilled at using abstractions, yet how does a so-called mere container of brain tissue produce this so abstract form?

We ever try to unify things by forcing them into one description or one set of inter-supporting definitions. The Whole contains many viewpoints. as many as there ever could be. Our way of unifying the many is not Whole's way. Why can we not see?. We find ourselves seeking That, by using that which we seek. We become like the Uroborus.

I think of those stereo like forms that gradually appear from seeming colored chaos of dots on paper. This sort of appearing is an excellent analogy, I think, of the activity of the Supreme Source. That One is all around us in anything and everything that is happening, but all is like those colored dots with no seeming pattern. We know what happens next. It is like that.

The term emergent comes to mind. Nothing produces anything else individually, yet the many are produced and flourish. Astounding!

Have you ever seen that Harvard video of how a cell does its thing? They have removed it from YouTube unfortunately. It was like a well-organized factory, with conveyor belts included. Very aware and very alive in its own way. The vid is wonderful and to be seen, if you have not seen it. A work of academic art.

Originally posted by lausey
A little off topic, but what I usually do after typing a long post is while the cursor is in the post (before I click the Post button), I CTRL-A (select all), CTRL-C (copy).

That way, if something drastically goes wrong, I can paste the post again (CTRL-V).

EDIT: Alternatively, type the post in notepad first, and copy/paste into here.

Yes, it a pain after you have got together stuff you'd like to say. I now copy longer posts, as lausey suggests. Yet since I have been copying for about a year, it hasn't happened!?

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“....The Brain is an organ comprising neural cells separated by synapses across which micro electric currents leap whenever communication between various parts of brain and body or within the brain takes place. But this leaves out who or what directs the passage of currents. ..”

don't understand what you mean: What “ directs the passage of current ...[text shortened]... ng but the first time I posted this, my post suddenly disappeared! I had to start it again.

>> "What “ directs the passage of currents” is the semi-permeable membranes and neurotransmitters."

Nothing directs anything else. It all happens together, electro-chemical processes, hormones, cellar components act together in a highly ordered way, constructing, maintaining and transporting and organising huge numbers of multivariant and complex cellular components.

The neurones are just one type of cell acting in effective concert with many others types, from maintaining cellular nutrition to cellular reproduction. A neurone fires only when it has received the exact required level of excitation. They are all doing it together. I think they act in a seemingly highly ordered and synchronised manner because of a localised but connected "field of awareness".

This has the very flavour of the quantum to it. Funny that.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo

Haynes has stated in that news item that "Your brain activity is the physiological substance in which your personality and wishes and desires operate" . Following questions arise.
i)Is it a description of Mind ?

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

ii) is " Brain activity is a physiological substance" an Oxymoron ? Activity of the brain is an abstract concept.

No. Activity of the brain consists of measurable electric impulses.

Again, learn the basics before you try being philosophical.

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[b]ii) is " Brain activity is a physiological substance" an Oxymoron ? Activity of the brain is an abstract concept.

No. Activity of the brain consists of measurable electric impulses.

Again, learn the basics before you try being philosophical.

Richard[/b]

Activity of the Brain is INDICATED by the electrical impulses,true. Just as temparature measures the quantity/level of heat the electrical impulses are a measure of the Brain Activities. They are not Brain Activities. Electrical Current cannot carry thoughts unless there is a code and a decoder.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Just as temparature measures the quantity/level of heat

You're trolling, right? Please tell me you're trolling, and that you're not trying to argue about science without having even passed high school physics.

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
You're trolling, right? Please tell me you're trolling, and that you're not trying to argue about science without having even passed high school physics.

Richard

I am a bachelor of civil engineering from one of the top technology institutes of India,namely IIT,Bombay. I had visited UK in connection with testing of Shock Transmission Units then being fitted on one of our bridges prior to despatch. Testing was done at Warrington, Cheshire,in the Nuclear Energy Authority Lab. The testing engineers there would have shown me the door if they had any doubts about my level of knowledge. I am giving these details so that personal attacks on my comments will stop and reasoned arguments will replace mudslinging.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Activity of the Brain is INDICATED by the electrical impulses,true. Just as temparature measures the quantity/level of heat the electrical impulses are a measure of the Brain Activities. They are not Brain Activities. Electrical Current cannot carry thoughts unless there is a code and a decoder.

That is like comparing apples and oranges. The brain works in a completely different way to communication systems that we develop, and nothing like multi-tier architectures we are used to in software engineering.

The brain evolved with all parts in tune with each other. The whole system speaks the same "language", so you would not need anything like a coder and decoder.

You wouldn't have one part of the brain evolve in its own way, and another part evolving another way, and then have a middle tier that then has to evolve so the other two parts understand each other.

Likewise, all parts are finely tuned with all other parts. This might imply a design, but if you observe how evolution works, you will find that all biological systems constantly remained in tune in very gradual steps. No part of it can be "out of step" with any other part, otherwise natural selection will filter this out, because it will be unstable.

Originally posted by Taoman
>> "What “ directs the passage of currents” is the semi-permeable membranes and neurotransmitters."

Nothing directs anything else. It all happens together, electro-chemical processes, hormones, cellar components act together in a highly ordered way, constructing, maintaining and transporting and organising huge numbers of multivariant and complex cellular ...[text shortened]... nnected "field of awareness".

This has the very flavour of the quantum to it. Funny that.

QT is ofeten the only way forward into attempting to explain these abstract yet very real things (the mind).
Have you seen a film called "What the bleep do we know?" . Its very good and attempts to explain Quantam Theory in the most basic language possibly. It is part interviews with scientists and part in story form as a lady goes through the examples in her life that the scientists theories postulate.

Originally posted by lausey
That is like comparing apples and oranges. The brain works in a completely different way to communication systems that we develop, and nothing like multi-tier architectures we are used to in software engineering.

The brain evolved with all parts in tune with each other. The whole system speaks the same "language", so you would not need anything like a code ...[text shortened]... other part, otherwise natural selection will filter this out, because it will be unstable.

Thanks for a very clear reply. Excuse me for persisting but please clarify further. Brain output is either some command to body organs or some message to its other parts or what we call as "our thoughts". While commands to our body organs or messages to its own parts will be in some Analog form what enables the Brain to compose thoughts in Human Language ? where is the encoder, decoder ?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
QT is ofeten the only way forward into attempting to explain these abstract yet very real things (the mind).
Have you seen a film called "What the bleep do we know?" . Its very good and attempts to explain Quantam Theory in the most basic language possibly. It is part interviews with scientists and part in story form as a lady goes through the examples in her life that the scientists theories postulate.

That stuff is pseudoscience.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
I am a bachelor of civil engineering from one of the top technology institutes of India,namely IIT,Bombay. I had visited UK in connection with testing of Shock Transmission Units then being fitted on one of our bridges prior to despatch. Testing was done at Warrington, Cheshire,in the Nuclear Energy Authority Lab. The testing engineers there would have sh ...[text shortened]... that personal attacks on my comments will stop and reasoned arguments will replace mudslinging.

Whatever your credentials, temperature is not a measure of heat.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Whatever your credentials, temperature is not a measure of heat.

dear Sir, I know that a Calorie is the unit for heat but I am saying that temperature is an indication for the heat content.