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  1. Standard memberDeepThought
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    A qualified psychologist called Dr. Todd Grande, who I like because his approach is very science based, has released a few videos about conspiracy theories and what personality aspects contribute to people believing them. I've put the links to two of them here, they are both about 15 to 20 minutes long. He always gives references so I've copied and pasted them.

    On a technical note, he uses the term "crystallized intelligence". They distinguish between "fluid" and "crystallized" intelligence. Fluid intelligence is raw processing power, think of an 8 year old whizz kid mathematician. If one had to explain crystallized intelligence in one word it would be "wisdom". It's essentially the amount of learning and experience one has, one expects this to be higher in older people.

    Also note that Dr. Grande is very clear that these are things that people with normal range psychologies believe. Believing in conspiracy theories is not, of itself, indicative of mental health problems.

    In this video Dr. Grande talks about what is wrong with conspiracy theories. After all some of them are true, c.f. Project Ultra. He's talking about the logical flaws, from a personality perspective that are in the thinking. As well as an argument about why large scale conspiracies would be exposed within about 4 years.
    YouTube
    The references he gives for this video are:
    Grimes, (2016), On the Viability of Conspiratorial Beliefs. PLOS ONE 11(3): e0151003. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone....
    Douglas, K. M., Sutton, R. M., & Cichocka, A. (2017). The Psychology of Conspiracy Theories. Current directions in psychological science, 26(6), 538-542.

    The second video is more focused on the personality aspects of why people come to believe these things in the first place.
    YouTube
    His references are:
    Contesting epistemic authority: Conspiracy theories on the boundaries of science.
    Harambam J
    Public Understanding of Science 24(4):466
    SAGE Publications Ltd 20150501
    0963-6625

    Swami, V., Coles, R., Stieger, S., Pietschnig, J., Furnham, A., Rehim, S., & Voracek, M. (2011). Conspiracist ideation in Britain and Austria: evidence of a monological belief system and associations between individual psychological differences and real-world and fictitious conspiracy theories. British Journal Of Psychology (London, England: 1953), 102(3), 443–463.

    BLANUŠA, N. (2011). Depathologized Conspiracy Theories and Cynical Reason: Discursive Positions and Phantasmatic Structures. Politicka Misao: Croatian Political Science Review, 48(1), 94–107.

    Nothing Happens by Accident, or Does It? A Low Prior for Randomness Does Not Explain Belief in Conspiracy Theories.
    Dieguez S
    Psychological Science 26(11):1762
    SAGE Publications, Inc 20151101
    0956-7976
  2. Zugzwang
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    08 Oct '19 19:001 edit
    @deepthought said
    A qualified psychologist called Dr. Todd Grande, who I like because his approach is very science based, has released a few videos about conspiracy theories and what personality aspects contribute to people believing them. I've put the links to two of them here, they are both about 15 to 20 minutes long. He always gives references so I've copied and pasted them.

    On a ...[text shortened]... Theories.
    Dieguez S
    Psychological Science 26(11):1762
    SAGE Publications, Inc 20151101
    0956-7976
    "Fluid intelligence is raw processing power, think of an 8 year old whizz kid mathematician."
    --DeepThought

    From experience, I don't think that's a very good description of mathematical prodigies.
    Some of them are 'lightning calculators' at arithmetic, and some of them are not.
  3. Standard memberDeepThought
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    08 Oct '19 19:16
    @duchess64 said
    "Fluid intelligence is raw processing power, think of an 8 year old whizz kid mathematician."
    --DeepThought

    From experience, I don't think that's a very good description of mathematical prodigies.
    Some of them are 'lightning calculators' at arithmetic, and some of them are not.
    I wasn't thinking of arithmetic particularly, I just wanted a concise way of getting across the idea of fluid intelligence. It doesn't have to be maths for one thing.
  4. Subscribersonhouse
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    08 Oct '19 19:275 edits
    @DeepThought

    No, I would think it could be applied to say Capablanca as a 7 yo winning chess games against strong adults
    or this Chinese kid:
    YouTube

    In his Carnegie Hall debut, his feet couldn't even reach the floor without near standing up!

    Or Emily Bear:

    YouTube

    She not only plays well but composes tunes on the piano and that very well.

    I would say all of those children shows Fluid intelligence.

    BTW, that was her at age 6.
    Her she is at 14:

    YouTube

    As for "Crystallized intelligence' how about this interaction between a professional pianist with a child on an airport piano:

    YouTube
  5. Zugzwang
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    08 Oct '19 23:271 edit
    @deepthought said
    I wasn't thinking of arithmetic particularly, I just wanted a concise way of getting across the idea of fluid intelligence.
    It doesn't have to be maths for one thing.
    I oppose the popular media's ignorant stereotyping of mathematical prodigies.
    Ruth Lawrence and Terence Tao, for instance, are quite different persons.
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    09 Oct '19 05:06
    @deepthought said
    A qualified psychologist called Dr. Todd Grande, who I like because his approach is very science based, has released a few videos about conspiracy theories and what personality aspects contribute to people believing them. I've put the links to two of them here, they are both about 15 to 20 minutes long. He always gives references so I've copied and pasted them.

    On a ...[text shortened]... Theories.
    Dieguez S
    Psychological Science 26(11):1762
    SAGE Publications, Inc 20151101
    0956-7976
    "As well as an argument about why large scale conspiracies would be exposed within about 4 years."

    https://effectiviology.com/argument-from-incredulity/

    Large scale conspiracies can last much longer than that because of incredulity alone. You are a good example. Will you even entertain the possibility that the USA is part of an empire along with the UK with an open mind? Nope. You reject it instantly because it sounds too incredible to be true. This form of thinking is fallacious.
  7. Standard memberDeepThought
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    09 Oct '19 13:08
    @metal-brain said
    "As well as an argument about why large scale conspiracies would be exposed within about 4 years."

    https://effectiviology.com/argument-from-incredulity/

    Large scale conspiracies can last much longer than that because of incredulity alone. You are a good example. Will you even entertain the possibility that the USA is part of an empire along with the UK with an ope ...[text shortened]... eject it instantly because it sounds too incredible to be true. This form of thinking is fallacious.
    This is different from an argument from incredulity. The argument is not that no one would every do such a thing, project MKUltra demonstrates this. It is that they cannot remain hidden, which Project MKUltra also demonstrates. Too many people are involved, based on a statistical analysis they are exposed, on average, within 4 years.

    An Empire is a political entity ruled over by an Emperor, and always openly. What actually exists is what you see, an alliance of states with common interests who cooperate militarily. Conspiracies are secret. Where's the big secret?

    One major difficulty I have with what you're saying is that you seem to think that the UK is the senior partner. The US is economically and militarily more powerful these days. You're trying to shunt blame for what you perceive as a wrong abroad.
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    09 Oct '19 15:391 edit
    @deepthought said
    This is different from an argument from incredulity. The argument is not that no one would every do such a thing, project MKUltra demonstrates this. It is that they cannot remain hidden, which Project MKUltra also demonstrates. Too many people are involved, based on a statistical analysis they are exposed, on average, within 4 years.

    An Empire is a political entity ...[text shortened]... ily more powerful these days. You're trying to shunt blame for what you perceive as a wrong abroad.
    " Too many people are involved, based on a statistical analysis they are exposed, on average, within 4 years."

    How do you know they were all exposed? What about the ones that were never exposed? It is impossible to get a count.

    "An Empire is a political entity ruled over by an Emperor, and always openly."

    Says who? A covert empire cannot exist? You are just making crap up. Who was the emperor of the British Empire? Churchill? I don't recall him having that title.

    "What actually exists is what you see, an alliance of states with common interests who cooperate militarily."

    What common interests?

    You opinion is based on the assumption that there is not propaganda guiding public opinion in either country. Have you fooled yourself into thinking that only happens in other countries?

    You are trying to shunt blame for unjustly invading foreign countries.
  9. Standard memberDeepThought
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    09 Oct '19 15:59
    @metal-brain said
    " Too many people are involved, based on a statistical analysis they are exposed, on average, within 4 years."

    How do you know they were all exposed? What about the ones that were never exposed? It is impossible to get a count.

    "An Empire is a political entity ruled over by an Emperor, and always openly."

    Says who? A covert empire cannot exist? You are just makin ...[text shortened]... appens in other countries?

    You are trying to shunt blame for unjustly invading foreign countries.
    I gave you the methodology used, the reference relevant to this above is Grimes et al. [1]. Although I haven't read the paper, Dr. Grande mentioned that this was the source for his statements about the viability of conspiracies. Although any one conspiracy might be kept secret, they cannot all be kept secret and your Empire conspiracy theory is a meta-conspiracy theory in the sense that it contains many smaller ones.

    George VI was the last Emperor of India, not Churchill, in the rest of the Commonwealth his title was King except for the Channel Islands where it was Duke. Churchill was the Primeminister. George VI abdicated the title of Emperor, it is well documented.

    You are drastically overestimating the amount of control Western governments have over the media. Government propaganda exists, but so do non-governmental voices, and these are voices that are not suppressed. In Britain information control is negative, in the sense that if they do not want the public to know something it is classified and not released. I think it is the same in the US, but your administrations seem to be worse at keeping secrets.

    [1] Grimes, (2016), On the Viability of Conspiratorial Beliefs. PLOS ONE 11(3): e0151003. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone....
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    09 Oct '19 16:201 edit
    @deepthought said
    I gave you the methodology used, the reference relevant to this above is Grimes et al. [1]. Although I haven't read the paper, Dr. Grande mentioned that this was the source for his statements about the viability of conspiracies. Although any one conspiracy might be kept secret, they cannot all be kept secret and your Empire conspiracy theory is a meta-conspiracy theory ...[text shortened]... bility of Conspiratorial Beliefs. PLOS ONE 11(3): e0151003. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone....
    "George VI was the last Emperor of India, not Churchill"

    India? What does that have to do with the British Empire?

    "You are drastically overestimating the amount of control Western governments have over the media."

    I never said governments have control over the media. How many times have I called it the corporate news media? Have I ever called it the government controlled media before? Stop assuming!

    You didn't answer my question. What are their common interests?
  11. Subscriberjoe shmo
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    09 Oct '19 19:402 edits
    @DeepThought

    I personally feel the time period of being found out would be proportional to how heinous the conspiracy is. For instance, the 911 conspiracy. Arguably it would need to be a large cooperation between various governing agencies to pull it off. If the main facets of the explosive demolitions of the WTC are true (which Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, and I believe to be the case ), these agencies effectively murdered ( accounting attack and subsequent war casualties ) 10,000's of people for some unknown motive (my personal speculation being so at the very least the US could immediately occupy a foreign country with zero governing body resistance ). Don't you believe fear of death at the almost certainty of zero gain (when faced with such an immense power) would become a relevant factor in the altruistic motives of the whistle blowers? Also , the people in these agencies aren't bumbling idiots that "spill the beans on accident" either. Their whole business is secrets, and making sure they are maintained. So I think scope of conspiracy and its motives and the level of the power structure involved will very much dictate the exposure time.
  12. Standard memberDeepThought
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    @metal-brain said
    "George VI was the last Emperor of India, not Churchill"

    India? What does that have to do with the British Empire?

    "You are drastically overestimating the amount of control Western governments have over the media."

    I never said governments have control over the media. How many times have I called it the corporate news media? Have I ever called it the government ...[text shortened]... lled media before? Stop assuming!

    You didn't answer my question. What are their common interests?
    India? What does that have to do with the British Empire?
    You say that and expect to be taken seriously? You do realize that it's pretty much why the British Empire was called an Empire? Think about what you're writing.
  13. Subscriberjoe shmo
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    @joe-shmo said
    @DeepThought

    I personally feel the time period of being found out would be proportional to how heinous the conspiracy is. For instance, the 911 conspiracy. Arguably it would need to be a large cooperation between various governing agencies to pull it off. If the main facets of the explosive demolitions of the WTC are true (which Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, ...[text shortened]... its motives and the level of the power structure involved will very much dictate the exposure time.
    Actually, I cant even say that it would need a large cooperation across agencies. Id imagine any one of the top secret agencies could set and trigger a domino ( the US domestic attack ), and the rest would be handled naturally among the other governing bodies unwittingly. So it doesn't need to be any cross cooperation at all. The number of 911 conspirators could actually be quite small, and loyal to the cause.
  14. Standard memberSoothfast
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    09 Oct '19 20:58
    @metal-brain said
    Will you even entertain the possibility that the USA is part of an empire along with the UK with an open mind?
    Who's the Emperor?
  15. Standard memberSoothfast
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    @metal-brain said

    India? What does that have to do with the British Empire?
    Well, India was known as the "jewel of the British Empire" once upon a time.
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