@deepthought saidAny secret program is a conspiracy. There is a deliberate conspiracy of silence with any classified military program. This military conspiracy of silence is common and expected. Perhaps that is why you falsely believe it is not a conspiracy, because this conspiracy of silence is common. All governments try to conceal new military technology. They are all conspiracies of silence though.
Yes, but of itself it does not constitute a conspiracy for the reasons outlined above. In your haste to identify a conspiracy you've missed the real one. In so far as there was a conspiracy it was to mislead Congress about the existence of the program, probably because Kissinger was worried that the Soviets and Chinese would get in on the game and that Congress might halt the research program.
We even have laws to enforce these conspiracies of silence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act
The definition of conspiracy is not determined by what you want it to be. You cannot change the definition when it suits you.
@sonhouse saidThat is correct.
@Metal-Brain
So any weapon system being developed in secret is a conspiracy. Got it.
There is no disputing that fact.
@metal-brain saidIf secretly planning a party constitutes conspiracy then there is nothing to complain about in conspiracies. I did check the definition of conspiracy in the Oxford Dictionary, you rejected it because it's British. Conspiracy and secrecy are not synonyms, even in US English. Secret collusion is not of itself conspiracy, the collusion has to be with an illegal or tortious objective. The police secretly colluding with the Security Service (MI5) to prevent a terrorist outrage is not a conspiracy.
"Meeting in secret to throw a surprise birthday party does not constitute a conspiracy."
Not true. It is a conspiracy and intended harm has nothing to do with it. Look up "conspiracy" in the dictionary. Just because people are not in the habit of saying they are conspiring to throw a surprise party means nothing. It meets the definition of conspiracy.
Slander in not ...[text shortened]... false rumors. Edison did it to Tesla during the current wars.
Legality has nothing to do with it.
@Metal-Brain
You then would have ALL weapons research to be out in the open, design papers delivered to enemies so they would know just what you are up to.
Also got it. GREAT IDEA.
@deepthought said" Secret collusion is not of itself conspiracy, the collusion has to be with an illegal or tortious objective."
If secretly planning a party constitutes conspiracy then there is nothing to complain about in conspiracies. I did check the definition of conspiracy in the Oxford Dictionary, you rejected it because it's British. Conspiracy and secrecy are not synonyms, even in US English. Secret collusion is not of itself conspiracy, the collusion has to be with an illegal or tortiou ...[text shortened]... cretly colluding with the Security Service (MI5) to prevent a terrorist outrage is not a conspiracy.
Again, what is your source of information? Here is mine.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy
@sonhouse saidNever said that. Try being honest for a change.
@Metal-Brain
You then would have ALL weapons research to be out in the open, design papers delivered to enemies so they would know just what you are up to.
Also got it. GREAT IDEA.
Conspiracies are necessary. They happen all of the time and it is normal. The point I am making is that deepthought has no right to make up false definitions for words just because he has a false notion that conspiracies are always nefarious. That is not the case at all.
Propagandists in a plutocracy try to paint conspiracy theories as something that should not be believed. This protects their self interests that depend on conspiracies for control and power. For that reason the word "conspiracy" has evolved a negative connotation that does not exist in the definition of the word.
You both need to accept conspiracies are both commonplace and not always nefarious. Some are essential for national security.
@metal-brain saidInvocations of conspiracy are typically couched as something unlawful, unethical or harmful. If the word conspiracy evolved a negative connotation that does not exist in the original definition, then so did all of it's synonyms.
Never said that. Try being honest for a change.
Conspiracies are necessary. They happen all of the time and it is normal. The point I am making is that deepthought has no right to make up false definitions for words just because he has a false notion that conspiracies are always nefarious. That is not the case at all.
Propagandists in a plutocracy try to paint conspir ...[text shortened]... onspiracies are both commonplace and not always nefarious. Some are essential for national security.
Synonyms for conspiracy: cabal, crew, gang, Mafia, mob, ring, syndicate.
@metal-brain saidRead the post you just replied to carefully, I said there.
" Secret collusion is not of itself conspiracy, the collusion has to be with an illegal or tortious objective."
Again, what is your source of information? Here is mine.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy
@wildgrass saidThat does not change the true definition of the word. Perception and reality are two different things. I stand by the definition.
Invocations of conspiracy are typically couched as something unlawful, unethical or harmful. If the word conspiracy evolved a negative connotation that does not exist in the original definition, then so did all of it's synonyms.
Synonyms for conspiracy: cabal, crew, gang, Mafia, mob, ring, syndicate.
@deepthought saidRead mine carefully. It is flawless.
Read the post you just replied to carefully, I said there.
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@metal-brain saidHad you read my post you would have seen that I said that I had checked the definition in the Oxford dictionary. This is the website which hosts the online version:
Read mine carefully. It is flawless.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/conspiracy
@deepthought saidYou overlooked this part:
Had you read my post you would have seen that I said that I had checked the definition in the Oxford dictionary. This is the website which hosts the online version:
https://www.lexico.com/definition/conspiracy
"or harmful."
Not "and", but "or". No law has to be broken.
@metal-brain saidThat is what tortious means. If one harms someone then the victim of the harm has been wronged, a wrong is a tort. This is why the secret plan for a surprise birthday party does not constitute a conspiracy.
You overlooked this part:
"or harmful."
Not "and", but "or". No law has to be broken.
Secrecy in weapons research involves a plan either to produce a new weapon or to counter an existing one, which can reasonably be described to be producing a possible future harm to a foreign state or states, otherwise the weapon's no good. Since international law accepts the right of states to defend themselves against foreign aggression, the the legality of the weapon or countermeasure is the sole determinant of whether the project would constitute a conspiracy.
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@deepthought saidNo, you are using the legal definition. Legally you cannot charge a person with conspiracy unless they break a law. That is not the true definition of conspiracy. Notice the definition from Merriam Webster. It says nothing about a requirement for an illegal act or even harm.
That is what tortious means. If one harms someone then the victim of the harm has been wronged, a wrong is a tort. This is why the secret plan for a surprise birthday party does not constitute a conspiracy.
Secrecy in weapons research involves a plan either to produce a new weapon or to counter an existing one, which can reasonably be described to be producing a poss ...[text shortened]... apon or countermeasure is the sole determinant of whether the project would constitute a conspiracy.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy
This is why the secret plan for a surprise birthday party does constitute a conspiracy. The legal definition does not apply there. All that is required is two or more people planning it.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy%20of%20silence