Vacation Status - Move Rule Proposal

Originally posted by John of Reading
Here is a possible abuse of a "sealed move" system:

A player puts his vacation flag up for several days. Part way through the vacation at a few minutes to midnight GMT he cancels the rest of the vacation, views all the sealed moves, and then books a new vacation starting at midnight GMT.

A sealed move system only works for OTB chess because onc ...[text shortened]... system:

http://www.iccf.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=53

But once a sealed move was seen it would have to be answered before another vacation could be booked wouldn't it?

Either way the system is and would still be grossly unfair to players unable to use it. 😠

okay, so some rules can be used and abused unfairly, but ones that hurt RHP and the spirit of the game, and ultimately chase away good players are the most damaging of all. sealed move or no sealed move, the vacation system is now allowing for improper time bank extensions . . . . please, no argument here.

a sealed move rule can be tweaked to work out, i'm sure. for instance, how about this?

1. Vacations must be booked at least three weeks in advance
2. Vacations cannot be booked closer together than 30 days each
3. Vacations must be a minimum of 3 days (maybe 5 or 7?)

I'm going to guess that the rationale for these suggested tweaks is obvious.

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
That's what I've been saying from the start.
People are using it as a simple timebank extender, which in my opinion is tantamount to cheating!

This vacation system is wide open to abuse.

At least they only have 30 days of vacation a year! 😲

Originally posted by coquette
okay, so some rules can be used and abused unfairly, but ones that hurt RHP and the spirit of the game, and ultimately chase away good players are the most damaging of all. sealed move or no sealed move, the vacation system is now allowing for improper time bank extensions . . . . please, no argument here.

a sealed move rule can be tweaked to work out, i ...[text shortened]... maybe 5 or 7?)

I'm going to guess that the rationale for these suggested tweaks is obvious.

I'm not too concerned about John of Reading's worries that the vacation sealed moves rule can be abused.

I don't think a 30 day booking rule is needed, and it's not a very good idea. Some people don't know when they need time, I know of one player that used to need to leave for 30 days at a time sometimes and they were not planned trips. He was wise and always played 28 day games but move frequently when he was active. Each game had time planned for him leaving. He would always PM me when he was leaving, and I'd even let my time burn a bit before making a move so I could really think a move out rather than trying to burn his clock.

If a player comes off vacation, makes their move and goes back on vacation everything continues as normal. If the other player is vacationing, that move is sealed and clocks are stopped again. If not, that player makes their move when they are ready. No one knows when anyone will make their next move, so what is the harm?

They are back on vacation, and when the other person moves they are back to the start with that player getting a sealed move. Chances are, there would be no advantage to abusing the system in this way. You still need to view the move and decide your move thus using your clock. Clocks still tick on vacation until someone makes a move against the vacationer. Them going on vacation doesn't stop the clock while they make their move.

There could also be a move that when you book vacation it always starts 24 hours from the time punched. If you need to leave for the airport right now, you might want to move in your 1 day games right away if you have time to be on RHP booking a vacation.

P-

When you go to vacation, every game has to be answered to or else the clock will still be ticking for that particular game.
During the vacation, no incoming move can be seen because they are sealed until you go off vacation.

So say that I want to go to vacation at June 5th and I estimate it will take 1 day to respond to all the games I have, then I book vacation one day earlier, at June 4th.

The clocks for every one game I haven't responded to, will still be ticking, but I am allowed to make moves during my vacation, in order to stop the clock ticking. But once the clock is stopped I don't get any move from my opponents. The moves are sealed.

If my opponent is on vacation, he can still give me moves, and from my point of view, the time is running. I have to respond with a move 8as if the opponent is not on vacation). But when I've made my move, my clock stops ticking (as normal), and the move is sealed. Your opponent can't see the game, and therefor don't know what your resonse is.

When I come back from my vacation, I stop the vacation and in that moment all sealed moves from the opponents are un-sealed and they are suddenly visible for me.

This is not a complicated vacation system for the players.
In short: During your vacation, all incoming moves are sealed and invisible for you, until you're back from your vacation.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
When you go to vacation, every game has to be answered to or else the clock will still be ticking for that particular game.

Ah, I see! My hypothetical "system abuser" doesn't gain himself any extra thinking time.

Originally posted by John of Reading
Ah, I see! My hypothetical "system abuser" doesn't gain himself any extra thinking time.

This concept of sealed moves is new to RHP, but it is a normal procedure for OTB tournament players. Perhaps it takes a while of programming to introduce 'sealed moves' to the system, but I think it's worthwhile.

I can't find any way to abuse this system. But even if there are ways, the number of ways to abuse the current vacation system is far more, and are used far more too.

Of course, non subscribers wouldn't be able to "seal" their moves.......to prevent abuse!!!!!! 🙄

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Of course, non subscribers wouldn't be able to "seal" their moves.......to prevent abuse!!!!!! 🙄

What are you so worried about? Non subs don't play clan or tournament games anyway. I guess this is where you point out that I am. Well, RHP is good enough to allow me to finish out my games after my sub ends, so I'm willing to play my important games with a wee handicap.

Casual Open Invite games aren't in the least bit important. I don't understand why people claim T/O in these games. Do you want to play chess or increase your rating?

If you don't want to hang around waiting for an opponent to come back from vacation, then just resign the game, and start another.

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
What are you so worried about? Non subs don't play clan or tournament games anyway. I guess this is where you point out that I am. Well, RHP is good enough to allow me to finish out my games after my sub ends, so I'm willing to play my important games with a wee handicap.

Casual Open Invite games aren't in the least bit important. I don't understand ...[text shortened]... an opponent to come back from vacation, then just resign the game, and start another.

D

refreshing perspective! ALL of the abuses, i bet, are from those players who are artificially trying to boost their ratings to a new all time high or to keep from falling below some imaginary pride mark, like not falling below 1400 or 1500 or something like that.

you might think (as some have expressed here) "who cares?" or "so what?" but it does matter when there are 70+ players in a tourny each playing a black and white game and a round cannot progress until everyone completes a round. so, we now just add 36 days to every tourney round, assuming that at least one player is going to drag it out as long as possible. NO WAIT, that's 30+ days extra for EACH player who decides to do the dragging at the end of their games .. .when the endings are spaced out and not concurrent, so it's probably about 60 days per round, maybe 90, right?

Originally posted by coquette
NO WAIT, that's 30+ days extra for EACH player who decides to do the dragging at the end of their games .. .when the endings are spaced out and not concurrent, so it's probably about 60 days per round, maybe 90, right?

I think you might want to relook at your maths.

D

Originally posted by coquette
refreshing perspective! ALL of the abuses, i bet, are from those players who are artificially trying to boost their ratings to a new all time high or to keep from falling below some imaginary pride mark, like not falling below 1400 or 1500 or something like that.

you might think (as some have expressed here) "who cares?" or "so what?" but it does matter ...[text shortened]... spaced out and not concurrent, so it's probably about 60 days per round, maybe 90, right?

It could be years if everyone took 30 days off.

P-

Originally posted by coquette
I would guess that others have suggested this before, but just in case, here goes:

Why, oh why, are people able to make moves while they are on vacation? Is anyone else bothered with seeing moves come in when folks are on vacation? How about watching them make moves in other games and letting your game sit cold while they are on vacation?

If you think ...[text shortened]... oves with your time counting. That is the true spirit of the game and fair play for everyone.

Gosh, isn't it terrible that some nasty people are making moves whilst they are supposed to be on vacation! Even worse, they are moving in some games but not in mine. How dare they! We must put a stop to this.

I know, let's prevent them from moving! So all those evil players who drag out their games just to annoy everyone will be forced to wait a few weeks until they come back from their vacations. What a brilliant idea. This will really speed up the tourneys...

But, why not go a bit further? Whilst they’re away, we should seal the moves so they won't be able to see what their opponents have played. That will teach them! Hey, is this what is meant by blindfold chess?

We could really ruin their holiday. Stop them moving, stop them posting… We might as well go the whole hog and block them from the site. After all, they deserve it. Especially those lucky bastards who go somewhere nice.

Let’s face it. Anyone who goes on vacation is a horrible, selfish person, who has no consideration for his opponents. And someone who goes on vacation but continues to move, is even more horrible, selfish, and inconsiderate - if that’s possible. Hanging is too good for them!

Originally posted by David Tebb
Gosh, isn't it terrible that some nasty people are making moves whilst they are supposed to be on vacation! Even worse, they are moving in some games but not in mine. How dare they! We must put a stop to this.

I know, let's prevent them from moving! So all those evil players who drag out their games just to annoy everyone will be forced to wait a few ...[text shortened]... more horrible, selfish, and inconsiderate - if that’s possible. Hanging is too good for them!

I take a lot of vacation, because I get a lot of vacation.

~Jim Rome / Sports Host

Originally posted by David Tebb
Gosh, isn't it terrible that some nasty people are making moves whilst they are supposed to be on vacation! Even worse, they are moving in some games but not in mine. How dare they! We must put a stop to this.

I know, let's prevent them from moving! So all those evil players who drag out their games just to annoy everyone will be forced to wait a few ...[text shortened]... more horrible, selfish, and inconsiderate - if that’s possible. Hanging is too good for them!

My sarcasmometer just exploded. 😞

D