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Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
This post is a mathematical, philosophical and analytical abomination. Anybody who has read it would do well to forget it immediately.

Do tell.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
What does that really mean? If, for example, I find that Islam is more believeable, and hence I worship that god, will the christian god still honour my choice? Or will he punish me for disbelieving in him?

God is obviously leaving the choice up to us, without coercion. He is not the worried hand-wringer, ready to pounce upon our first mistake, aha!-ing us to a henpecked state of paralysis. He lets us roam.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Ahh... finally we have come full circle! In another thread, I said that I'm convinced that there is a creator. I'm not very concerned with what we name that creator. You can call him god if you like. BUT! I don't believe in religion, because I think religions are a bunch of craps.

Although I believe in a creator, I'm not sure I subscribe to the idea of ...[text shortened]... ly care what I call him, or which avenue I take, as long as I acknowledge him, it's OK?

But If this creator send you a message asking you to worship him and give you the way to worship him, you will ignore his message.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
also the christian God says to not put Gods before you, which i think means not to make up your own Gods rather than you cannot worship the jewish or islam God, i think they are the same thing.

So are you saying that whoever believes in a non-christian god may be subject to punishment? Would that be a harsher punishment when compared to a non-believer at all? In other words, there IS something to lose if we did pull that lever, right?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
God is obviously leaving the choice up to us, without coercion. He is not the worried hand-wringer, ready to pounce upon our first mistake, aha!-ing us to a henpecked state of paralysis. He lets us roam.

Yes, but that doesn't answer my question. Will God punish us for that one mistake, i.e. choosing others over him?

Originally posted by ahosyney
But If this creator send you a message asking you to worship him and give you the way to worship him, you will ignore his message.

But that is the problem; I received no message of the such! Of course some may argue that those messages are contained in the holy books --- which were written by humans.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Oh no, I think you are getting me wrong. I am not complaining that there are consequences out of my actions. I have long accepted that as a part of life. I do this, then I get this outcome; I do that, then I get that outcome. That is straight-forward enough.

But this line, "god gives free will" in my opinion, gives one the impression that god allows us ng! But of course if you help me remove the rubbish in the corridor, I'll pay you for it.

Where in the world do you ever see God giving us free will without
judging us? The full point of judgment of our will where we knew about
right or wrong, is what did we do? I also don't think you even grasp
the judgment either if you think it is all about God judging us on
disobeying His wishes. You will condemn yourself, you will not need
God for that, for as you judge another you condemn yourself if you do
those things that are forbidden by you, or you find you do not do
those things you demand that others should be doing. You will be your
worse judge, you will lay in the bed of your own making and you will
not have the power to do anything but be condemned. Our salvation
is great because it cleans us of all our sins, and we design our own
sins more times than not.


If you do not belong to God why would God condemn you for not doing
those things that belong to His ways? His ways are better than ours so
they should be followed, His Spirit guiding us will teach us as He leads
us on in life. If you do not belong to God you are on your own, if you
give yourself to some other god, let that god deal with you, if it cannot
save you from the judgment of God, you will simply have to deal with
that truth as it becomes plain on judgment day, wihen the truth is on
full display, and all that was done in darkness is brought to light.
Kelly

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Do tell.

For starters, do you really believe all of that 50% nonsense? Do you really believe it is 50% likely that God exists, due to the fact that he either does or does not exist?

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Yes, but that doesn't answer my question. Will God punish us for that one mistake, i.e. choosing others over him?

If you belive that there is a creator. Why do you think he created you? What does he want from you?

Man cann't by his mind alone answer these questions. So GOD send message through his apostels and prophet to tell us why he created us and what he want from us.

The message of all the prophets were the same, to worship this only creater. The method you should worship him also given to us through prophets. He gave each prophet mericals to aid his claim that he is a prophet.

The problem is the people didn't accept the message of the prophets, for example, Jews didn't accept the message of Jesus, althougth it was the same message of Mosses and that made Christianity and Judaism, and both didn't accept the message of Prophet Mohammed so that make them 3 religous although they are one because the sender is one, the only creator.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Where in the world do you ever see God giving us free will without
judging us? The full point of judgment of our will where we knew about
right or wrong, is what did we do? I also don't think you even grasp
the judgment either if you think it is all about God judging us on
disobeying His wishes. You will condemn yourself, you will not need
God for that ...[text shortened]... en the truth is on
full display, and all that was done in darkness is brought to light.
Kelly

OK, that sounds fair enough. At least we are clear on that. It's just that most christians appear to promote christianity on, amongst others, the strength of god giving us all 'free will', which unfortunately gives the impression that we are allowed to do as we pleased without any consequences. But that is not exactly the case.

It was just the other day that I went to a store. There's this pretty girl carrying a box which contained lots of small folded papers in it. She invited me to draw a piece. And just because I wanted to be sporting, I drew one. She read it and announced that I've won a hair-dryer, absolutely free! Wow, I said, that's great. So let me have it! But, NO! In order to claim that FREE GIFT, you need to buy a range of electrical goods worth hundreds of dollars. That FREE hair-dryer is equivalent to the FREE WILL that god gives us. I guess it is true that NOTHING'S free in life.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
But that is the problem; I received no message of the such! Of course some may argue that those messages are contained in the holy books --- which were written by humans.

The message is recived as I told you through prophets. You can accept it or reject it. If you accept it then you followed the way of GOD , other wise you didn't follow what GOD wanted from you.

What are the Holy Books

Mosses came with the Torah, he didn't write the Torah himself , it was revealed to him from GOD, so it is the words of GOD.

Same goes for Jesus and the prophet Mohammed

The problem in the old messages (The Bible) are not the original ones that given from GOD. The hands of human worked in them. But this didn't happen to Quran as I belive.

Some may not accept that so I will leave their books for them to talk about it and I can talk with you about Quran, the message I belive in,If you want too.

Originally posted by ahosyney
If you belive that there is a creator. Why do you think he created you? What does he want from you?

Man cann't by his mind alone answer these questions. So GOD send message through his apostels and prophet to tell us why he created us and what he want from us.

The message of all the prophets were the same, to worship this only creater. The method you ...[text shortened]... that make them 3 religous although they are one because the sender is one, the only creator.

Yes, you have given a good part of my response. The problem is, of course, if those messages were indeed from god, then why are they so different from one another? The bible says this, the Quran says that. One says pray on Sundays; the other says pray 5 times everyday. One says you can eat pork; the other says you can't; one says you can only marry one; the other says you can marry up to 4. There are so many other different things found in these holy books. Now we are faced with this simple question: Is it possible that god is getting senile? Is he forgetting his own rules in an earlier era? I don't think so.

So we are forced to a second conclusion: that it's the human authors that made the mistakes. They recorded god's messages wrongly. But then which human author (s) was/were the culprit(s)? Well, your guess is as good as mine. One thing is certain; if there is only one god, then all the holy books can't be correct for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
Yes, you have given a good part of my response. The problem is, of course, if those messages were indeed from god, then why are they so different from one another? The bible says this, the Quran says that. One says pray on Sundays; the other says pray 5 times everyday. One says you can eat pork; the other says you can't; one says you can only marry one; the in; if there is only one god, then all the holy books can't be correct for obvious reasons.

I replayed to this before but I will state my point again...

The Bible cann't be refrenced to its original source. I mean to the prophets who it is revealed to. No one in the world today can say that the Torah exist today is the same one the revealed to the prophets.

But I can tell you 100% that the Quran we read today is the same one revealed to the Prophet Mohammed. I belive that all the books are messages from GOD. And I belive if we have the original books revealed to Mosses and Jesus, we will find no differences. But as we cann't do that I think I should stick to the one I'm sure of.

The other thing, although there is major differences but the basic concepts (at least for Jews) it is the same. They both worship one GOD. And the both pray for him (If Jews follow their book).

The prayer style is the same, but Muslims follow it, Jews and Christians don't, and the Bible you will find that all the prophets Bow during Prayer , including Jesus. But Jews and Christians don't follow that.

Any way this is a long story we can continue talking in it if you want.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
For starters, do you really believe all of that 50% nonsense? Do you really believe it is 50% likely that God exists, due to the fact that he either does or does not exist?

Um, yes? I'm not trying to say there is a 50% chance that God exists; I think the "chances" are much higher. But the wager is 50/50. Maybe I'm just tired: what am I missing?

Originally posted by ahosyney
I replayed to this before but I will state my point again...

The Bible cann't be refrenced to its original source. I mean to the prophets who it is revealed to. No one in the world today can say that the Torah exist today is the same one the revealed to the prophets.

But I can tell you 100% that the Quran we read today is the same one revealed to the ...[text shortened]... 't follow that.

Any way this is a long story we can continue talking in it if you want.

There is no need to continue 'talking' about it. I have no doubt that you are very sure of the accuracy of the contents of the Quran; just as so many people here are equally sure of their Bible. And I am equally sure of my conclusion on both books.