Originally posted by googlefudgeThe fantastic thing about this is (if one can call this fantastic) that we will see the rise of the AntiChrist (and probably Armageddon, if we live that long, since there will be a mere 7 years, maybe a little more, between the two events) in our lifetimes. *In my opinion*
Agreed, while you may be less fundamentalist than a Y.E.C. if you believe in an imminent Armageddon
and the coming of the Antichrist, then you are still a fundamentalist.
If, however, these things follow Isaac Newton's timeline and don't occur until the 2050's (with Armageddon to occur in 2060), then there is the possibility that some of us won't be here to see it. I mean, I'll be 80 in 2056.
Originally posted by SuzianneHow can a man such as Mr Newton know when Jesus says he doesn't know?
The fantastic thing about this is (if one can call this fantastic) that we will see the rise of the AntiChrist (and probably Armageddon, if we live that long, since there will be a mere 7 years, maybe a little more, between the two events) in our lifetimes. *In my opinion*
If, however, these things follow Isaac Newton's timeline and don't occur until th ...[text shortened]... re is the possibility that some of us won't be here to see it. I mean, I'll be 80 in 2056.
Originally posted by googlefudgeThe one reading it has the evil mind, if he sees evil in it.
Oh yes that argument is definitely with the fundamentalists and Young Earth Creationists.
Which is who I was arguing with.
If you don't take the bible literally and view it as allegory then the fact that it doesn't make scientific sense is irrelevant.
However many people (including the ones I was/am arguing with) view the bible as literal and iner ...[text shortened]... g your own, or otherwise external
guides to morality to do so so why bother using it at all?
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Originally posted by googlefudgeSuzianne is very young and is like a baby Christian. She still needs more maturing before she can agree completely with me. 🙂
Agreed, while you may be less fundamentalist than a Y.E.C. if you believe in an imminent Armageddon
and the coming of the Antichrist, then you are still a fundamentalist.
The rest of the seventh day of Genesis is not related to God being fatigued. It is a rest of satisfaction as having arrived at the conclusion of His heart's desire.
He has creation and man as His deputy authority to exercise dominion over His creation.
God "rests" there because He is satisfied with the set up and not because He is tuckered out.
Originally posted by galveston75I was watching some History Channel thing about Nostradamus, when they went off on a tangent about Isaac Newton predicting the second coming. I thought it was interesting, but you know, I'm not setting my watch by it.
How can a man such as Mr Newton know when Jesus says he doesn't know?
I only brought it up to illustrate that I think it will probably occur before then.
Originally posted by RJHindsSeems to me that Suzianne already has a considerably more mature outlook on faith and indeed on life than you. I don't know the young lady beyond her posts in these fora, but I'd be surprised if she ever came around to agreeing with your rather naive form of christianity.
Suzianne is very young and is like a baby Christian. She still needs more maturing before she can agree completely with me. 🙂
Originally posted by avalanchethecatSatan at work again.
Seems to me that Suzianne already has a considerably more mature outlook on faith and indeed on life than you. I don't know the young lady beyond her posts in these fora, but I'd be surprised if she ever came around to agreeing with your rather naive form of christianity.
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Originally posted by RJHindsYes, because I find a book that details the rules for who you can and can't keep as slaves
The one reading it has the evil mind, if he sees evil in it.
and how hard you can beat them, and under what circumstances you can have your wife
stoned to death evil means that I must be evil too....
Grow up.
Originally posted by googlefudgeGet your mind out of the gutter!
Yes, because I find a book that details the rules for who you can and can't keep as slaves
and how hard you can beat them, and under what circumstances you can have your wife
stoned to death evil means that I must be evil too....
Grow up.
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Originally posted by RJHindsYou don't think that keeping slaves and beating them is evil?
Get your mind out of the gutter!
You don't think stoning people to death is evil?
You don't think stoning a woman to death for adultery is evil?
The bible promotes all these things, and you know it.
Originally posted by googlefudgeSome of us who are serious about wanting to really understand the Bible have to consider ALL the passages together. We don't feel it is honest to only be biased or one sided about the issues spoken to in the 66 books of the Bible.
You don't think that keeping slaves and beating them is evil?
You don't think stoning people to death is evil?
You don't think stoning a woman to death for adultery is evil?
The bible promotes all these things, and you know it.
For example, your observations considered in a fuller light:
You don't think that keeping slaves and beating them is evil?
We have to consider this law of Moses in Exodus concerning kidnapping:
"And he who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)
And the New Testament reminds us that the law was enacted against "kidnappers" (1 Timothy 1:10)
Since there was a death penalty for kidnapping a person to make him or her a slave, we have to discern that a voluntary dept slave must be refered to in at least some places in the OT. That is a person who sells himself into servitude for the sake of paying off depts.
See also Deuteronomt 24: 7 - "If a man is found kidnapping someone from among his brothers of the children of Israel, and deals with him as a slave or sells him; then that kidnapper shall die. Thus you shall utterly remove the evil frm your midst."
Now concerning the beating of slaves. Was there any divinely prescribed protection against this abuse ? Yes. Unlike many other ancient Near Eastern law codes the law of Moses accounted for the release of injured slaves:
"And if a man strikes the eye of his male servant or the eye of his female servant and destroys it, he shall let thtat one go free on account of that one's eye." And if he knocks out his male servant's tooth or his female servants tooth, he shall let that one go free on account of that one's tooth." (Exodus 21:26,27)
This was God's law discouraging the master from injuring his slave.
It is more ethical then many similar Near Eastern law codes of the ancient times.
Furthermore, there was punishment prescribed for the master that kills his slave:
"And if a man strikes his male servant or his female servant with a rod, and the servant dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished." (Exodus 21:20)
Notice that both male and female servants are mentioned so as to reveal equity.
It should be obvious that such laws served as deterents to masters being too harsh with their indentured servants and slaves.
You don't think stoning people to death is evil?
There were some stonings to death in the Old Testament. But the Christian is not called to adopt the Levitical laws but heed the New Testament principles.
And in the New Testament John chapter 8 sets the example of Jesus telling the people that whoever had no sin among them should be the first to cast a stone at the adulterous woman.
The crowd caught the woman in the act of adultery, dragged her to Jesus and reminded Him what the law of Moses said - stoning to death. What does the Son of God reply:
"But when they persisted in questioning Him, He stood up and said to them, He who is without sin amopng you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
And when they hear that, they went out one by one, beginning with the older ones. and Jesus was left alone, and the woman stood where she was, in the midst.
and Jesus stood up and said to her, Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you ? And she said, No on, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more." (See the whole account in John 8:1-11)
This, we Christians consider a more final word on the stoning law of the Old Testament. There is not New Covenant which is the final word - the New Testament about redemption in Christ and forgiveness and freedom from the guilt and power of sins of all kinds.
As serious students of the Bible we cannot just hunt out knee jerk objections without considering the overall scheme of God's salvation.
You don't think stoning a woman to death for adultery is evil?
God showed too things in the course of the bible:
1.) His legitimate hatred towards sinning.
2.) His love and redemption from its terrible penalty and power in the salvation of Jesus.
The bible promotes all these things, and you know it.
Your kind of bias skepticism is hardly reliable to the serious student of the Bible's full teaching.