Originally posted by galveston75
It does in all the Bibles I have....

My mistake. I do make one once in a while. 😳

Originally posted by josephw
My mistake. I do make one once in a while. 😳

No problem but make sure before you say things like that....

Originally posted by josephw
That still doesn't explain how you justify acussing epi of attacking g75's character.

Besides, the cited scriptures prove nothing g75 asserted.

The issue, really, is g75's credibility.

What exactly do these scripture not prove?

Originally posted by galveston75
I'm not. But it's the first of a few subjects to come...

I was just curious, because you've broached this subject before. Last time around you were quite successful at ignoring any contrary biblical evidence. I don't foresee the present discussion being any different, so I'm inclined to let you persist in your mistaken beliefs unmolested. However, it strikes me as odd that you purposefully return to this subject of the 'unconscious dead' over and over again. I'm trying to imagine what mindset I would be in were I so passionate about the finality of death. Do you fear the afterlife? Is nothingness more appealing to you? Why is it so important for you to believe, and to convince others to believe, that when we die we're really dead as door-nails?

Originally posted by galveston75
Death:
All men die because of Adam: Rom 5:12,17,19. 1Cor 15:22.
All men sin: Ps 51:5. Rom 3:23, 6:23.
When a person dies they exist with no thought or conscienceness:
Gen 3:19. Eccl 9:5,6,10. Ps 146:4. 1Thes 4:13. Acts 7:60. 1 Corinthians 15:6.
1 Kings 19:4

I know it's already been said, but I'll say it again:
Not a single verse you quoted supports--- in any way, shape of form--- your premise that, upon death, it all becomes nothing.

It's almost though you woke up this morning, sat down and ate an entire bowl of Zen. Either that, or a huge serving of stupid. You tell me.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I know it's already been said, but I'll say it again:
Not a single verse you quoted supports--- in any way, shape of form--- your premise that, upon death, it all becomes nothing.

It's almost though you woke up this morning, sat down and ate an entire bowl of Zen. Either that, or a huge serving of stupid. You tell me.

either you ate a huge bowl of id rather not actually tell the forum why none of these verses state that death is a state of unconsciousness, or you have covered yourself in chocolate and proceed to eat yourself, intermittently telling yourself how good you taste. Assertions with substantiation are bumf and mere opinion, yours is no exception. Perhaps you should try coco pops instead.

Originally posted by galveston75
Death:
All men die because of Adam: Rom 5:12,17,19. 1Cor 15:22.
All men sin: Ps 51:5. Rom 3:23, 6:23.
When a person dies they exist with no thought or conscienceness:
Gen 3:19. Eccl 9:5,6,10. Ps 146:4. 1Thes 4:13. Acts 7:60. 1 Corinthians 15:6.
1 Kings 19:4

Lazarus and the rich man were certainly not asleep.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
either you ate a huge bowl of id rather not actually tell the forum why none of these verses state that death is a state of unconsciousness, or you have covered yourself in chocolate and proceed to eat yourself, intermittently telling yourself how good you taste. Assertions with substantiation are bumf and mere opinion, yours is no exception. Perhaps you should try coco pops instead.

Well, many of these verses simply describe the dead as 'sleeping'. I do not see how this supports the idea that the dead lack consciousness. Orthodox Christians, for example, celebrate the Dormition of Mary (the falling asleep of Mary in death) and yet they very fervently pray to Mary for her constant intercession. As has traditionally been understood, 'sleeping' in this context does not indicate a lack of consciousness but rather a separation of soul and body so that the unresurrected body rests in peace. The soul survives while the body goes to sleep.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Lazarus and the rich man were certainly not asleep.

parable and utterly figurative.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Well, many of these verses simply describe the dead as 'sleeping'. I do not see how this supports the idea that the dead lack consciousness. Orthodox Christians, for example, celebrate the Dormition of Mary (the falling asleep of Mary in death) and yet they very fervently pray to Mary for her constant intercession. As has traditionally been understood, 'sle ...[text shortened]... that the unresurrected body rests in peace. The soul survives while the body goes to sleep.

again you have not stated why one of those verses does not mean that the dead are unconscious, infact, its quite clear that Ecclesiastes states quite the opposite of what you are saying.

(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, . . .


I dont think that Galvo made this up you know.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
parable and utterly figurative.

Of course it is figurative. But how could it make any sense unless there were consciousness after death?

Originally posted by Conrau K
Of course it is figurative. But how could it make any sense unless there were consciousness after death?

well gee, i dont know . . . . . .because it is not meant to be taken literally.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
again you have not stated why one of those verses does not mean that the dead are unconscious, infact, its quite clear that Ecclesiastes states quite the opposite of what you are saying.

[b](Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, . . .


I dont think that Galvo made this up you know.[/b]

I do not accept Ecclesiastes however as a statement of the afterlife. Rather, I see it as a rumination on the vanity of life without justice. To interpret it as a philosophical discourse about life after death is shallow.

Having said that, I think there is some evidence that the author believes in the immortality of the soul (Eccl. 7: 7, 12).

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well gee, i dont know . . . . . .because it is not meant to be taken literally.

I do not suggest you take it literally, as if a man goes to hell and really asks Abraham for permission for relief. What I am saying, however, is even if you interpret it non-literally, it still presupposes some level of consciousness after death. I do not see how it can be interpreted otherwise and I ask that you explain more fully what Jesus means, how there can be divine justice following death if consciousness is terminated.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I do not accept Ecclesiastes however as a statement of the afterlife. Rather, I see it as a rumination on the vanity of life without justice. To interpret it as a philosophical discourse about life after death is shallow.

Having said that, I think there is some evidence that the author believes in the immortality of the soul (Eccl. 7: 7, 12).

oh really then what is it about the dead are conscious of nothing that yet evades you? or that needs your interpretation to give it the seal of approval. Interpret it how you like, the fact remains, dead are unconscious as is substantiated by scripture.