Originally posted by GoodKnight2U
You think that although the laws of the universe are above everyone else's understanding,
[b]No that is a false interpretation of what I wrote. there many things beyond understanding if this not case then men would have little to no reason to debate because he would know everything, although some already think they do

What makes you so sure that ...[text shortened]... beyond my understanding?
Well then you have the big ego

stop analysing everything.[/b]

I truly believe that humans as a collective working together can find the answer to anything. However, the thing is not in coming up with a right answer, it's coming up with a GOOD question.

Poor question will keep getting the same tiresome responses.

Ask me a question, go on, I'll wager I can answer it. ( note: the question has to be logical otherwise it's just a trick and I'm not playing silly mind games)

Originally posted by GoodKnight2U
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?

The Word of God is much wiser way to go than just living off your thoughts, which we all know change constantly.

Our thoughts change. Imagine if they didn't - would we be like robots going through the motions of daily life, praying before dinner and bed and attending church on Sundays? Because that's the sort of mind numbery that your post conjures up in my imaginative mind!

I don't know why Jesus had a beef. Lets face it, in his day and age and for the stuff he preached he had all that coming.

It is conclusively proven that the bible, which you claim to be the only word of god, is written by men supposedly inspired by god. But really, if I told you I wrote a manifesto that shows us the way into the future and the steps we will need to take to make this world better, by feeding,clothing,housing and most importantly educating the people, would you even believe 1% of my evaluation?
Why are my modern words not as relevant as the words of a dead Jew from over 2000 years ago? How do you know my words are not as wise as Jesus'?

And don't give me that blasephemy garbage because that's just a throw off so that people (hopefully get scared) and don't pursue that line anymore.


"no one gets to Heaven except through me" ... what does that mean exactly? Surely it's not literal? I mean, does he want us to walk through him? I doubt it.
No, I think what he was trying to say is that "no one gets to Heaven except by following my example" . Now that makes sense. It says to me bear witness to how to do the right things via my teachings, and if you stray then you will fall into the wicked temptations and the short lived pleasure that get you no closer to god.
Huh? What do you think? Bit more practical or what?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
It always makes me chuckle when somebody defends the veracity of their scripture by quoting something from within that scripture. Why would you think that has any weight?

it always makes me chuckle when somebody defends the veracity of there God given brain that has been given a use by date by quoting something that is only an opinion that disagrees with every other opinion. Why do you think that has any weight?


2 peter 3:5 But they deliberately ignore the fact that long ago the heavens existed and the earth was formed by God's word out of water and with water.

I can point out something in the scripture above which indicates to me that there was a knowledge in the world long before I came along, and long before all the doubters and unbelievers that fill this forum such as yourself come along.
You see knowledge didn't begin with you, it started long before you, and it came from a higher source of knowledge..... in the beginning God.


So I believe in God and in his word as the truth, while you you put all knowledge on your own head and believe only in the words you speak? you are only a man, no different to any other man.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Our thoughts change. Imagine if they didn't - would we be like robots going through the motions of daily life, praying before dinner and bed and attending church on Sundays? Because that's the sort of mind numbery that your post conjures up in my imaginative mind!

I don't know why Jesus had a beef. Lets face it, in his day and age and for the stuff h ...[text shortened]... that get you no closer to god.
Huh? What do you think? Bit more practical or what?

what is that waffle?

Originally posted by GoodKnight2U
it always makes me chuckle when somebody defends the veracity of there God given brain that has been given a use by date by quoting something that is only an opinion that disagrees with every other opinion. Why do you think that has any weight?


[b]2 peter 3:5 But they deliberately ignore the fact that long ago the heavens existed and the earth was ...[text shortened]... ad and believe only in the words you speak? you are only a man, no different to any other man.

No, he is unique and has the god-seed within him - as do all humans.


There is also a whole bunch of ancient cultures with their own scriptures, from way before JC, which contain some very profound insights into life and the universe.
The red indians,australian aborigines, mayans and othe south american cultures, egyptians, etc,etc. all spring to mind. So why is your universal laws the right ones?

Cause you know there is no way to prove it because it was so long ago, before cassettes and videos 🙁
Really it just comes down to you choosing one over the other without so much as having a clue which one is accurate, so you go with Christianity because I suspect it is the culture that you live in - just as most Indians are Hindus for no other reason except that they were born in India and the wight of popular opinion plays on the fears of those couch potatoes that dont bother to try to find stuff out for themselves

Originally posted by GoodKnight2U
what is that waffle?

Yes, the first part might be hard for your very limited imagination, (dare I say non-existent? ), but the last paragraph is pretty straight forward. So? what do you think, should we be waling through JC, or following his example?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Yes, the first part might be hard for your very limited imagination, (dare I say non-existent? ), but the last paragraph is pretty straight forward. So? what do you think, should we be waling through JC, or following his example?

So all of your entire belief system is simply based only on imagination not truth?
which explains why you spend all your efforts arguing and disputing Gods truth.

Originally posted by GoodKnight2U
it always makes me chuckle when somebody defends the veracity of there God given brain that has been given a use by date by quoting something that is only an opinion that disagrees with every other opinion. Why do you think that has any weight?


2 peter 3:5 But they deliberately ignore the fact that long ago the heavens existed and the earth was ad and believe only in the words you speak? you are only a man, no different to any other man.

What in blazes are you dribbling on about!?

Avalanchethecat noted that you justify the validity of scripture by referring to the claim that it is the inspired word of "God", "who" is claimed to be perfect by scripture. The simple fact is that this is is lunacy on your part.

To demonstrate any of the propositions:

- scripture is true
- scripture is inspired by "God"
- God is perfect

are true requires you derive at least one of these by starting from premises that are different.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
(by "decent" I mean his arguments were coherent, plausible and not induced by fear of hell or fear of disdain from other Christians)

Me, my muso mate (agnostic would be the closest description) and a Christian had a talk the other night.
Actually the Christian brought us a meal, and not just Maccas but an $80 steak for my mate and a $15 ice cream ...[text shortened]... cate Christianity for sure. Sadly, as we all know, this guy was the exception to the rule.

You have shown that this kind of posting, in this kind of forum, is not the way to attract this kind of Christian.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
No, he is unique and has the god-seed within him - as do all humans.


There is also a whole bunch of ancient cultures with their own scriptures, from way before JC, which contain some very profound insights into life and the universe.
The red indians,australian aborigines, mayans and othe south american cultures, egyptians, etc,etc. all spring to ...[text shortened]... ys on the fears of those couch potatoes that dont bother to try to find stuff out for themselves

Do you remember how you started this thread or are you really that narrow minded?
Read what you write before you hit the send button in future and stop waffling on, because every time you write something you contradict yourself.

[I]As I left, I wondered why more Christians couldn't be like this fine young man. I mean if he was what Christians were generally like then I would advocate Christianity for sure. Sadly, as we all know, this guy was the exception to the rule.[/I]

All the waffle in the World is not gonna change a thing. what was appointed from the beginning of time still stands today and no matter how much you jump up and down, stamp your feet or wave your fist in the air in protest, no matter how much you splatter your unbelief, or promote your opinions. the sooner you just learn to just accept it the better it will go with you.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Originally posted by GoodKnight2U
it always makes me chuckle when somebody defends the veracity of there God given brain that has been given a use by date by quoting something that is only an opinion that disagrees with every other opinion. Why do you think that has any weight?


[b]2 peter 3:5 But they deliberately ignore the fact that long ago the heavens existed and the earth was ...[text shortened]... and believe only in the words you speak? you are only a man, no different to any other man.[/b]

I'm sorry, I can't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that my criticism of your position is based on my opinion? Because it isn't, you know. It's based on the circular logic you're using. You're claiming that the bible is divinely inspired, but your only grounds for this belief is that it says so within the bible. Can't you see the problem here?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I'm sorry, I can't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that my criticism of your position is based on my opinion? Because it isn't, you know. It's based on the circular logic you're using. You're claiming that the bible is divinely inspired, but your only grounds for this belief is that it says so [b]within the bible. Can't you see the problem here?[/b]

Look at what you are doing and all the circular reasoning you use, you don't want the truth so you base your belief in....? do you even even know?

The Bible is the inspired word of God because it says so and I have no reason to argue with it, I believed in God before I was even old enough to know what a Bible was. So not to believe in absolutely everything else that is going around I will believe in what I know to be true.

Making a religion out of deliberately disagreeing or making argument, and your attention to argue is specifically aimed toward the Bible or those who believe I it, ask your self why do you do that? so no wonder you don't understand.

You must admit you do place special attention toward steering others away from believing in the Bible, that's your entire purpose here and its obvious in your questioning...
Stop asking the unnecessary questions but instead ask yourself why you deliberately do that? what is pulling your strings to have a beef with Christianity? pick up a Bible for yourself and read it and help yourself to understand.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
(by "decent" I mean his arguments were coherent, plausible and not induced by fear of hell or fear of disdain from other Christians)

Me, my muso mate (agnostic would be the closest description) and a Christian had a talk the other night.
Actually the Christian brought us a meal, and not just Maccas but an $80 steak for my mate and a $15 ice cream cate Christianity for sure. Sadly, as we all know, this guy was the exception to the rule.

He was definitely a young Christain and perhaps age and maturity did have spmething to do with it. He is giving respect to his elders regardless of their false beliefs. I, on the other hand, would have pointed out what Jesus said and hoped that you would give the words of Jesus respect even though you might not give me the respect I deserve not only because of my age, but more importantly because of my knowledge of the Holy Scriptures.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

(John 14:6 NKJV)

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

(Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV)

Originally posted by twhitehead
Why? Are you afraid I might actually understand something?

The fact is that I do understand some of the laws of the universe (I wouldn't last long without understanding the basics of gravity), and the only reason you brought up the topic is that you think that if you claim that nobody knows anything, then somehow your ridiculous beliefs must be more re ...[text shortened]... actually ridiculous for you to hold beliefs. Ah, now I see why you don't want me analyzing. 🙂

There are limits to how much you/I actually do understand or know.
and what you/I perceive simply from human thought as correct could be very much be incorrect.

Originally posted by GoodKnight2U
The Bible is the inspired word of God because it says so and I have no reason to argue with it, I believed in God before I was even old enough to know what a Bible was.

Is this your refutation of the suggestion that you're using circular logic?