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18 Nov 13
Originally posted by SuzianneLesbianism is fetishized to a bizarre degree. Women seem to be allowed greater sexual fluidity in general, whether or not it's true that their sexuality is more fluid. I'm jealous of bisexual women in particular, who are not only allowed to be bisexual in general society without much of a social repercussion, but who are actively sought out because of their bisexuality. I wish the same were true for me. It does seem interesting, though, that bisexuality is not taken seriously in either gender -- men are lying, women are trying to seem more attractive, yadda yadda.
Bump.
Come on. I want to hear the "male opinions".
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18 Nov 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieClearly some people behave in a homosexual way, in nature, i.e., in reality.
homosexuality is morally wrong because as Paul states, its unnatural.
And it's clear that you don't mean the "state of nature," meaning generally an individual by him- or herself outside of society. (I dispute that men are by their nature society-less, but either way homosexuality and heterosexuality are both impossible in the individual by itself).
What is "human nature" to you? Acting in accordance with the Bible? Then you have stated that "homosexuality is morally wrong because as Paul states, it is," and the word "natural" is just confusing and irrelevant. This sentiment is the same as "homosexuality is wrong because it is wrong, and I think it's gross," the latter part being the only additional information in the word "unnatural."
Where is the actual reason?
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by UzumakiAiQuite.
Lesbianism is fetishized to a bizarre degree. Women seem to be allowed greater sexual fluidity in general, whether or not it's true that their sexuality is more fluid. I'm jealous of bisexual women in particular, who are not only allowed to be bisexual in general society without much of a social repercussion, but who are actively sought out because of thei ...[text shortened]... iously in either gender -- men are lying, women are trying to seem more attractive, yadda yadda.
But, as many here have gone on at length about homosexuality and the "abomination" of the "sins of Sodom and Gomorrah", there's not been hardly any talk of female homosexuality.
I want to know, from a man's viewpoint, is female homosexuality a "sin" and "an abomination before God"? If so, where does it lie on the continuum of sin in general? And particularly, is it as bad as some here have made out male homosexuality to be? Come on, let's hear the particulars.
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20 Nov 13
Originally posted by SuzianneWell as you're not specifying...
Quite.
But, as many here have gone on at length about homosexuality and the "abomination" of the "sins of Sodom and Gomorrah", there's not been hardly any talk of female homosexuality.
I want to know, from a man's viewpoint, is female homosexuality a "sin" and "an abomination before God"? If so, where does it lie on the continuum of sin in general? ...[text shortened]... s bad as some here have made out male homosexuality to be? Come on, let's hear the particulars.
No, a persons sex, gender, or sexual orientation are completely independent of a
persons worth, or morality.
Homosexuality is not wrong, bad, or evil. Irrespective of the genders or sexes involved.
Furthermore there is no such thing as sin, and who cares if it goes against the wishes of a
fictional being?
However I think you were not asking for a 'male' opinion.
I think you were asking for a 'backwards ass, knuckle-scraping bone headed idiot
fundamentalist theist, homophobic, racist, bigoted nut-job, male' opinion.
Although why you would care is a bit beyond me.
These questions get a lot easier to answer when you don't have to try to interpret the will of
a fictional being via the cobbled together and much translated words of bronze age peasants
every time you want to deal with a question of ethics and morality.
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20 Nov 13
Originally posted by SuzianneThey paralleled this in X2 where Bobby's mother asked him if he had ever tried "not being a mutant?"...
Particularly the ones who say it is a "choice". The line "and he won't stop being gay" was a head-shaker.
Personally I think the whole 'is it a choice or not' debate is a red herring.
When you are saying that it's not a choice, they are made that way (which could well be true) you
are kinda saying to the homophobes that "yes homosexuality is a bad thing, but they don't have
any choice the poor dears, so leave them alone"
I say who cares if it's a choice or not? they are not doing anything wrong or immoral so it doesn't
matter if it's a choice or not.
20 Nov 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeYou know, I really didn't expect to have to answer to the atheists' version of RJHinds, okay?
Well as you're not specifying...
No, a persons sex, gender, or sexual orientation are completely independent of a
persons worth, or morality.
Homosexuality is not wrong, bad, or evil. Irrespective of the genders or sexes involved.
Furthermore there is no such thing as sin, and who cares if it goes against the wishes of a
fictional being?
...[text shortened]... rds of bronze age peasants
every time you want to deal with a question of ethics and morality.
And you know I wasn't asking you, to begin with.
Originally posted by googlefudgeAnd I really didn't expect to have to explain anything in my question to you, of all people.
They paralleled this in X2 where Bobby's mother asked him if he had ever tried "not being a mutant?"...
Personally I think the whole 'is it a choice or not' debate is a red herring.
When you are saying that it's not a choice, they are made that way (which could well be true) you
are kinda saying to the homophobes that "yes homosexuality is a bad ...[text shortened]... ot? they are not doing anything wrong or immoral so it doesn't
matter if it's a choice or not.
Edit: I would think that by now, you understand what I believe and what I don't. So could we be polite and not have to have the entire debate about God in every single thread about anything? That's what I meant when I said you are the atheists' version of RJHinds. You keep repeating what you believe in every thread you post in, whether it has any bearing on the topic, or on anything, really. Kinda how we have to muddle through hearing about "evilutionists" in every single thread RJH posts in. Yeah, I'm absolutely tired of hearing how "These questions get a lot easier to answer when you don't have to try to interpret the will of a fictional being via the cobbled together and much translated words of bronze age peasants every time you want to deal with a question of ethics and morality." I get it. You don't believe in God. Can we talk about something else now?
Sorry for all the edits, I had formatting issues.
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20 Nov 13
Originally posted by SuzianneI do, and did.
You know, I really didn't expect to have to answer to the atheists' version of RJHinds, okay?
And you know I wasn't asking you, to begin with.
But if you are going to generally ask for 'male' opinions then you shouldn't expect
me to simply leave the floor open to homophobic bigots to be the sole representatives
of 'male' opinion.
Plus as a white strait guy living in a rich western democracy, the single most privileged and advantageous set of attributes you could possibly have in this world, I have a certain moral
obligation to use my position to stand up for and attempt to de-stigmatise those with
attributes unfairly less advantageous in this world.
Give me an opportunity to make it uncomfortable to be a homophobic bigot and I will gladly
take it.
There is a saying that all that is needed for evil to win is for good people to do nothing.
I'm not going to do nothing.
Originally posted by googlefudgeThen please do me the favor of understanding where I stand on certain issues. I lean to the left. I'm a political liberal. I'm not the same brand of Christian that most here ascribe to. I also consider myself a champion of those who are less-well-represented in society as well. So get off the soapbox. I agree with you this time.
I do, and did.
But if you are going to generally ask for 'male' opinions then you shouldn't expect
me to simply leave the floor open to homophobic bigots to be the sole representatives
of 'male' opinion.
Plus as a white strait guy living in a rich western democracy, the single most privileged and advantageous set of attributes you could possi ...[text shortened]... that is needed for evil to win is for good people to do nothing.
I'm not going to do nothing.
And I would have liked the opportunity to confront the certain males you spoke of in this thread, but thanks to your outburst, that's probably impossible now. Thanks for nothing.
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21 Nov 13
Originally posted by SuzianneUm ok... Don't talk about gods on the spirituality forum... check.
And I really didn't expect to have to explain anything in my question to you, of all people.
Edit: I would think that by now, you understand what I believe and what I don't. So could we be polite and not have to have the entire debate about God in every single thread about anything? That's what I meant when I said you are th ...[text shortened]... d morality." I get it. You don't believe in God. Can we talk about something else now?
I am a little confused though, I was (I thought) agreeing with you, and didn't mention god or religion in that post... at all.
The whole post was about ethics. didn't mention religion. did mention X-men... But it was a completely religion free post...
Soooo... yeah, I'm a tad confused.
I am not totally convinced you DO understand my position on god, but I can accept that you don't want to talk about that any more.
So, sure, we can talk about something else.
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21 Nov 13
Originally posted by SuzianneYou think the anti-gay lot on this site hide from me?
Then please do me the favor of understanding where I stand on certain issues. I lean to the left. I'm a political liberal. I'm not the same brand of Christian that most here ascribe to. I also consider myself a champion of those who are less-well-represented in society as well. So get off the soapbox. I agree with you this time.
And I would have li ...[text shortened]... n this thread, but thanks to your outburst, that's probably impossible now. Thanks for nothing.
I only wish I was that effective.
I do actually understand where you stand on these issues, which is why I was
agreeing with you, not sure why you think I wasn't.
But I do apologise for trampling on your point if that is indeed what I have done.
21 Nov 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeI wasn't saying never talk about God or religion. But you have to point out how your non-belief in God makes you wonder how important can God be "since he doesn't exist" in every thread. This stifles conversation, it does not help. I think we all get how you do not believe in God. Well, surprise, surprise, but some of us do. And some of us will have conversations about God that we don't want interrupted for the five millionth time about how God doesn't exist, so who cares? Yes, we know you don't believe. Yes, we do get it. Is your aim to just shut down every single conversation about God? I'm guessing that won't happen, so try to get used to the idea that some of us here in the Spirituality forum will talk about God.
Um ok... Don't talk about gods on the spirituality forum... check.
I am a little confused though, I was (I thought) agreeing with you, and didn't mention god or religion in that post... at all.
The whole post was about ethics. didn't mention religion. did mention X-men... But it was a completely religion free post...
Soooo... yeah, I'm a tad c ...[text shortened]... t that you don't want to talk about that any more.
So, sure, we can talk about something else.