-Removed-I mean is it not amazing that humans ended up being what we are if there is no grand plan ? If everything in existence is one big accident and there is no meaning behind anything then having a conversation about the whole thing seems more than wild to me. I don't beieve it is one big accident. I can't believe that. It's way to cold, and dreary, and leave's me feeling flat. The Chistian concept leaves me feeling cold and dreary to, but I do think there must be an intelligent agent involved with creation. Call that agent God if you want. It does not bother me what it's called.
Originally posted by buckkyThere is an 'afterlife' for all humans. Those who believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins as a sacrifice will inherit " a mansion of many rooms" in a place called Heaven-either here on earth or someplace else that God has predetermined.
Can a non beliver still believe in an after life of some sorts ? Just the fact that we are here in the flesh talking about such issues is pretty wild if the whole thing is one big accident or fluke, so why could we not end up on the other side with awarness after death. I'm sure it could all be explained away as just another God not involved fluke. I'm not ta ...[text shortened]... evers ending up in Hell. Just identity after death with awarness of being alive in some sense.
There will also be an afterlife for nonbelievers, aka atheists, murderers, child-killers, thieves, et al, in addition to all those who die in their sins...even the so-called Sunday-morning Christians, aka hypocrites. This place is a dark void where there will be "wailing and gnashing of teeth" perpetual misery and separation from God.
Originally posted by bill718I think you have it backwards. Non-believers had better hope that they are right because if they don't (and they don't, BTW) then they will be eternally separated from God and eternally associated with Satan in hell, wailing and gnashing their teeth...for all eternity.
Non belivers can believe in an afterlife (or anything else) if they wish. If however you sincerely believe there is no God...You'd better be right!😏
Originally posted by JanewayYou are partially correct. While how we live our lives is very important, the most important decision we can make is whether to accept Jesus as Savior or not. One's eternal afterlife experience depends entirely on the correct decision.
whether there is an afterlife is surely a matter of faith. who knows. What is certain is that we will all die. What is important is how we live our life- a simple answer , i know.
Originally posted by JanewayWhat I meant is that the existence of an afterlife has nothing to do with faith. Just as the existence of alien life forms has nothing to do with whether or not we actually believe in their existence. A persons faith provides them with a 'belief' not evidence.
but facts are things that are scietifically accepted. There is no way to prove there is an afterlife. It is a person's faith that provides them with the evidence for an afterlife.
Originally posted by buckkySuppose humans had turned out differently. Suppose we evolved with four arms. Would we still be sitting around exclaiming that it was amazing we turned out that particular way? If we hadn't evolved at all then we wouldn't be around to ask the question. But the fact that we are asking the question means that we did evolve in some particular, but not necessarily special way. In other words, we could have evolved in any number of ways and we would have ended up thinking each final configuration was just as special. Or that each particular configuration of the universe was just as special. As long as the universe turns out in a way to allow for creatures capable of contemplating the question, they will invariably think that particular configuration is a special one. Except it isn't.
I mean is it not amazing that humans ended up being what we are if there is no grand plan ? If everything in existence is one big accident and there is no meaning behind anything then having a conversation about the whole thing seems more than wild to me. I don't beieve it is one big accident. I can't believe that. It's way to cold, and dreary, and leave's me ...[text shortened]... ved with creation. Call that agent God if you want. It does not bother me what it's called.
There is no "grand plan." The fact that you would like there to be one does not make it so. Truth is not dictated by your emotional needs.
Originally posted by bill718Ugh! Are you going to bore us to death with yet another misguided application of Pascal's Wager? Do you know how many times that has been brought up in this forum? And each and every time it has been pointed out what a weak argument it is. Do you really want me to go to the trouble of publicly humiliating you by going through the whole thing yet again?
Why?? If you sincerely believe there is no God, and your are wrong, you'll spend a very very long time regreting it! 😏
Originally posted by dystoniacJust like the Nazis sent their long list of perceived enemies to the concentration camps, you christians would send your even longer list of perceived enemies to god's eternal concentration camp. Your dogma explicitly endorses murder, torture and genocide as legitimate means toward its goal. Your god's moral standing is several notches below Hitler's.
There is an 'afterlife' for all humans. Those who believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins as a sacrifice will inherit " a mansion of many rooms" in a place called Heaven-either here on earth or someplace else that God has predetermined.
There will also be an afterlife for nonbelievers, aka atheists, murderers, child-killers, thieves, et al, in addi ...[text shortened]... re there will be "wailing and gnashing of teeth" perpetual misery and separation from God.
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Originally posted by buckky…If everything in existence is one big accident and there is no meaning behind anything then ...…
I mean is it not amazing that humans ended up being what we are if there is no grand plan ? If everything in existence is one big accident and there is no meaning behind anything then having a conversation about the whole thing seems more than wild to me. I don't beieve it is one big accident. I can't believe that. It's way to cold, and dreary, and leave's me ...[text shortened]... ved with creation. Call that agent God if you want. It does not bother me what it's called.
I am not sure but I think it is just possible that you may have slightly misunderstand the scientific understanding of creation here whether you are talking about the creation of the universe or the creation of the human species.
Grant you there is absolutely no scientific premise that the creation of either has “meaning” (or “purpose&rdquo😉 behind it of the type you are referring to, but, it is not part of modern cosmology that the universe was created as a result of “one big accident” and neither is accurate to say we evolved as a result of “one big accident” because, although there would have been some random mutations involved, natural selection is not random.
…I don't believe it is one big accident. ..…
Like most atheists that I am aware of, neither do I!
There is absolutely no scientific premise to believe that everything comes into existence as a result of some kind of purely random process (this does not in anyway support the superstition that there must be some kind of supernatural being).
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-Removed-Actually, “created” is probably the wrong word here and is extremely misleading (I should have said that). If the mainstream understanding of the big bang theory and modern physics is correct, it is, strictly speaking, not true to say that the universe was “created” because, although there was a time zero with no “before” that point in time, at no point in time did the universe not exist! Therefore it was never “created” because for something to be “created” there has to be at least a point in time when it did not exist!
I suppose we can still talk about the “design” of the universe as long as we are in mutual agreement here that in this context the meaning of the word “design” is a non-standard meaning of the word that does not imply intend, plan, purpose, consciousness etc.
Originally posted by rwingetti have to stop you there, this time you have gone too far! i mean it, enough is enough! if you do your homework you will see that one of the first inmates in the Nazi concentration camps were Jehovah's Witnesses, a christian organization severely persecuted to the point of death in some instances, why? because they adhered to biblical principles that it was unlawful to kill another human being! Go to Auschwitz, go to Dachau, the testimony is there for all to see! so respect where respect is due rwingett, for this time you have gone too far!
Just like the Nazis sent their long list of perceived enemies to the concentration camps, you christians would send your even longer list of perceived enemies to god's eternal concentration camp. Your dogma explicitly endorses murder, torture and genocide as legitimate means toward its goal. Your god's moral standing is several notches below Hitler's.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut he has a point. He pointed out the bad things about religion and compared them. If this is a weak point of religion, then we have to deal with it, even if it feels threatening...
i have to stop you there, this time you have gone too far! i mean it, enough is enough! if you do your homework you will see that one of the first inmates in the Nazi concentration camps were Jehovah's Witnesses, a christian organization severely persecuted to the point of death in some instances, why? because they adhered to biblical principles tha ...[text shortened]... for all to see! so respect where respect is due rwingett, for this time you have gone too far!
