Originally posted by sonship

The fact that there may be some gaps of a few years in other sections of scripture can not logically amount to millions or billions of years.

It does not prove that there is an interval of long time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. But it does demonstrate that Bishop Ussher's counting up years to pinpoint the date of the creation of the uni ...[text shortened]... elieve that Eve was the first [b]CREATURE that Satan deceived. (If you have not yet)[/b]

And it will be in the day when the Lord gives you rest from your pain and turmoil and harsh service in which you have been enslaved, that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say,

Originally posted by RJHinds

Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:1-17 does not give more details on Genesis 1:1-2, but instead, these are prophecies that concern only a a brief period of time when Nebuchadnezzar was King of Babylon.

"But He turned and said to Peter, Get behind Me, SATAN! You are a stumbling block to Me ..." (Matt. 16:23a)

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Daystar, son of the dawn! How you have been hewn down to earth, You who made nations fall prostrate!

But you, you said in your heart:
I will ascend to heaven;
Above the stars of God
I will exalt my throne.
And I will sit upon the mount of the assembly in the uttermost parts of the north.

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High." (Isaiah 14:12-14)

Ezekiel 28:1-17 concerns the defeat of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar. The references to the king of Tyrus or Tyre as a 'cherub' who was in 'Eden' should be understood as a metaphor that describes the rulers great privilege and blessing and not that he was that superhuman angelic being, otherwise he would not be identified as just a man.

Originally posted by sonship
Let me ask you something about "billions". That's a big number that I think is no where used in the bible.

Now I just saw a science presentation saying that the human Genome consists of a billion "words" made up of four letter "alphabet".

Should I as a Bible believer fight against the idea of a billion words used to define what I am? I mean David sai ...[text shortened]... is no reason to believe the allusion would be applied to a dignitary of the Gentile nation Tyre.

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Apologies if i have already missed the answer, but if the world is indeed 6000 years old, how long ago were the dinosaurs waking the Earth?

Originally posted by RJHinds
[b]"Your eyes saw my unformed substance; And in Your book all of them were written."
(Psalm 139:16)

You seem to be assuming you know what is in that book. Which book is it?

[quote]And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were ...[text shortened]... e my response on that thread. I do not see any sense in repeating the same thing on two threads.[/b]

You seem to be assuming you know what is in that book. Which book is it?

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.


(Revelation 20:12 NASB)

We are discussing this same thing on the Gap Theory thread. You apparently did not seem to understand what I meant by the word "analogy" so look it up and see my response on that thread. I do not see any sense in repeating the same thing on two threads.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Apologies if i have already missed the answer, but if the world is indeed 6000 years old, how long ago were the dinosaurs waking the Earth?

Originally posted by RJHinds
No one knows for sure and it may depend on which dinosaurs.

Originally posted by sonship

You seem to be assuming you know what is in that book. Which book is it?

Some hyper literalist might object that there is a book because it says so.

Anyway, "billions" should not cause us to have problems.
Billions of miles or billions of years should not cause us problems.

Billions of Gods should.
Billions of years (perhaps ...[text shortened]... e beginning of the universe!" it has no effect on the power of God's creating or His salvation.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I agree that lies do not change the truth. However, believing in a lie as Eve did can make a big difference in a persons actions.

I wish to be careful that I do not add a lie to the truth of the Genesis account of creation, because it may effect someone's belief, just as the serpent's lie did to Eve.

I am certainly not attempting to say that Christ ca ...[text shortened]... r during creation will prevent one from being saved. But I see no need to add fuel to the fire.

Originally posted by RJHinds

I am certainly not attempting to say that Christ can not save whomever He pleases and that believing in billions of years before creation or during creation will prevent one from being saved. But I see no need to add fuel to the fire.

As every axe swinger knows, a single ring of a tree stump represents about a year in that tree’s life. In Sweden there is a Norwegian spruce (called Old Tjikko) that has 9,550 of them.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So show me where Jesus said Earth was 6000 years old.

I think the problem with viewing the world as 6000 years old is that you have created a biblical jigsaw puzzle. This would have been understandable hundreds of years ago when knowledge of the universe was limited and the 'pieces' seemed to fit. In the modern age however 'pieces' have been discovered that simply don't fit into your puzzle. You are therefore put in the impossible position, that if you want to continue with your puzzle you have to either ignore these pieces or try to discredit them. But this is a fools mission as the result will always be the same; an incomplete puzzle with huge gaps that you simply can not explain away.

Throw that puzzle in bin. It belongs there.

Originally posted by sonship

I am certainly not attempting to say that Christ can not save whomever He pleases and that believing in billions of years before creation or during creation will prevent one from being saved. But I see no need to add fuel to the fire.

But you do see a need to preach about the Shroud of Turin though there is nothing preached about it in the New Testament ?

Selective caution, RJ.

The Synoptic Gospels use the word sindon in the singular to designate the Shroud (Matt. 27:59; Mk. 15:46 (twice); Lk. 23:53). Sindon appears only six times in all of the New Testament. In an anecdote unique to Mark, it is used twice in 14: 51-52 to describe the linen cloth left by an unnamed young man when he fled naked from the Garden of Gethsemane.

In Jn. 19:40, the Fourth Gospeller uses the word othonia [Gk.] (plural) to describe the linen cloths used in the Burial. Othonia, a word of uncertain meaning, but probably best translated as a generic plural for grave clothes. The same word is used by Luke or his scribe in Lk.24:12 what had previously been described as the sindon in Lk. 23:53. Note: vs. l2 (But Peter rose and ran to the tomb, stooping and looking in, he saw the linen cloths (plural) by themselves; and he went home wondering what happened.) does not appear in the most ancient manuscripts, but is added by later ancient authorities.

Next we discover (keirias) [Gk.] translated by the RSV as bandages in Jn. 11:44's description of the raising of Lazarus. In actuality, linen strips used to bind the wrists and ankles and probably also used on the outside at the neck, waist and ankles to secure the Shroud to the body.

Finally we come to the word sudarion [Gk.] which is found in the canonical texts solely in John (11:44. 20:7) and Luke (l9:20; Acts l9:12). It is translated by the RSV as "the napkin which had been on his head" (Jn. 20:7) and earlier in 11:44 as the cloth with which Lazarus' face was wrapped. Scholars like the late Dr. John A.T Robinson ( "The Shroud of Turin and the Grave Cloths of the Gospels" ) and J.N. Sanders regard it as a chin band going around the face/head for the purpose of keeping the corpse's jaws closed. Certainly this appears to be the intent of the artist who drew the manuscript illustration for the Hungarian Pray mss, Fol. 27v, Budapest of 1192-95 which clearly illustrates that the Shroud's full length image(s) were known in the 12th century.

Now, scientists at the University of Padua in Italy have used infrared light and spectroscopy (the study of a physical object's interaction with electromagnetic radiation) to examine the shroud and found that it's actually much older, the Telegraph reports.

In his recent book, "Il Mistero della Sindone," translated as "The Mystery of the Shroud," (Rizzoli, 2013), Giulio Fanti, a professor of mechanical engineering at Padua University, said his analysis proves the shroud dates from 280 B.C. to A.D. 220 ― meaning it existed during Jesus' lifetime, the Guardian reports.

YouTube

Originally posted by RJHinds
SHROUD OF TURIN AND THE SUDARIUM OF OVIEDO

[quote]The Synoptic Gospels use the word [b]sindon in the singular to designate the Shroud (Matt. 27:59; Mk. 15:46 (twice); Lk. 23:53). Sindon appears only six times in all of the New Testament. In an anecdote unique to Mark, it is used twice in 14: 51-52 to describe the linen cloth left by an unnamed ...[text shortened]... look at the video:
Physical Evidence of Jesus Christ #3: Burial Cloth of Jesus Christ Evidence[/b]