1. Standard memberRagnorak
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    16 Jan '06 20:38
    Num 31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive
    Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
    Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
    Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

    Why is Moses teaching genocide, cruelty, murder of women and children and rape?

    D
  2. London
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    16 Jan '06 23:09
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Num 31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive
    Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
    Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every wom ...[text shortened]... rselves.

    Why is Moses teaching genocide, cruelty, murder of women and children and rape?

    D
    Num 31 follows from Num 25:

    [1] While Israel dwelt in Shittim the people began to play the harlot with the daughters of Moab.
    [2] These invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate, and bowed down to their gods.
    [3] So Israel yoked himself to Ba'al of Pe'or. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel;
    [4] and the LORD said to Moses, "Take all the chiefs of the people, and hang them in the sun before the LORD, that the fierce anger of the LORD may turn away from Israel."
    [5] And Moses said to the judges of Israel, "Every one of you slay his men who have yoked themselves to Ba'al of Pe'or."

    [16] And the LORD said to Moses,
    [17] "Harass the Mid'ianites, and smite them;
    [18] for they have harassed you with their wiles, with which they beguiled you in the matter of Pe'or, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of the prince of Mid'ian, their sister, who was slain on the day of the plague on account of Pe'or."
  3. Standard memberShallowBlue
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    16 Jan '06 23:17
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Num 31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive
    Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
    Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every wom ...[text shortened]... rselves.

    Why is Moses teaching genocide, cruelty, murder of women and children and rape?

    D
    So, Moses, the great hero and deliverer, is saying to take all female virgins (including little girls) for your own pleasure and everyone else is to be murdered?
    I'm not familiar (yet unsurprised) with this scripture
    Who is he commanding and which unfortunate race is to be obliterated? Can you clarify the crime committed that warrants this terrible vengeance?
  4. London
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    17 Jan '06 00:11
    Originally posted by ShallowBlue
    Who is he commanding and which unfortunate race is to be obliterated? Can you clarify the crime committed that warrants this terrible vengeance?
    Why ask questions if you're not interested in the answers?
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    17 Jan '06 00:26
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Num 31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive
    Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
    Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every wom ...[text shortened]... rselves.

    Why is Moses teaching genocide, cruelty, murder of women and children and rape?

    D
    God also wiped out Sodom and Gommorah. This included men, women and children. What you don't even care to consider is why. To give you a taste of the wickedness of the city Lot was intertaining two strangers who had come to visit him in the city. When the men in the city saw the strangers they came to Lots door and demanded that they come out so that they may know them. That is censored Bible talk for doing the nasty. I do not know how wicked these people were but I do know that it was common practice for them to sacrifice their children to their idols. For me there is nothing more evil than this act. This was an attempt to destroy all traces of such an evil society. It is nothing more.
  6. Standard memberShallowBlue
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    17 Jan '06 00:32
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Why ask questions if you're not interested in the answers?
    I am interested in the answers.
    After all, we always like to have our prejudices reinforced. 🙂
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    17 Jan '06 10:361 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    This was an attempt to destroy all traces of such an evil society. It is nothing more.
    Anyone or anything that wipes out a bunch of innocent people is an evil force never to be trusted or believed in.

    Who would actually say this?

    "Hey! I'm Moses! I speak for God, yo'all! I can pretty much do anything I'd like with this world. Want yo'all to love my LORD now, yo'hear? Now, wipe out that filthy city and while your at it, kidnap and rape any innocent virgin girl you can find. It's alright. 'Cause I say so. Yeah!!!! Rock'n'roll baby! Whooooo!"

    That's just crazy, whether you use a modern language or an ancient one.
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    17 Jan '06 10:46
    Originally posted by stocken
    Anyone or anything that wipes out a bunch of innocent people is an evil force never to be trusted or believed in.

    Who would actually say this?

    "Hey! I'm Moses! I speak for God, yo'all! I can pretty much do anything I'd like with this world. Want yo'all to love my LORD now, yo'hear? Now, wipe out that filthy city and while your at it, kidnap and ...[text shortened]... Whooooo!"

    That's just crazy, whether you use a modern language or an ancient one.
    WAW, which comic books are you reading for your religious studies?
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    17 Jan '06 11:00
    Originally posted by Peachy
    WAW, which comic books are you reading for your religious studies?
    Read the first few posts. Yes, it's a different language, but basically it's the same message.

    It's never, under any circumstances (whether an order given by God or one of his followers) ok to abduct and kill any living thing for any reason whatsoever! I'm God! I'm telling you. Stay back or I'll **** so far up ***** that **** for at least *****! Yeah!!! Whoooo!!!

    (To any moderator. Please note that I didn't use any bad words. Nor did I imply bad words in a way that would make it obvious to anyone - with even the filthiest imagination - what I was saying.)
  10. Cape Town
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    17 Jan '06 11:07
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Why is Moses teaching genocide, cruelty, murder of women and children and rape?
    Surely murder is only wrong if not sanctioned by the Lord ?
    If God decides that a persons time to die has come then so be it. It is also not a punishment unless the person is already destined to go to hell, which, if they are innocent, would not be the case.
    The real question is why he chose slaughter by the jews rather than some natural disaster. Maybe it was so as to selectively leave all the virgins as a present for the jews.

    The only question to be asked here is what evidence is there that the message actually came from God? If it didnt then it was genocide. The only evidence I am aware of is:
    1. the unconfirmed statement by a writter who was probably not even present at the time.
    2. the implication by future writers that all scripture is true and that the writting in question is scripture.
    3. some peoples personal beliefs.
  11. London
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    17 Jan '06 11:27
    Originally posted by stocken
    Anyone or anything that wipes out a bunch of innocent people is an evil force never to be trusted or believed in.
    Were they innocent? Read Numbers 25.
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    17 Jan '06 12:00
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Were they innocent? Read Numbers 25.
    Yeees?.. And the little girls and the virgin women are of course also guilty of whatever the LORD is talking about there?.. Let's face it. This God thing may be a very good personality for all I know, but Moses was just a vendictive little **** who couldn't face the fact that some people are not like he wanted them to be. It's the Saddam of his time. The Hitler of ancient history. My guess is, if there really is a God, and that God really said all these things like love your next and do not kill and all that, Moses currently resides in a very warm place. (I even consider it possible that he's the notorious ruler of that place.)

    It doesn't make any sense for a good-hearted, compassionate and wise leader to suggest genocide, kidnapping and raping as a solution to people not sharing his values in life. No sense at all.

    Don't you get it? Moses was a nutcase. He couldn't accept a certain behaviour or attitude, and he went bazooka on those who "sinned" (in his opinion). He was very aggressive (obviously). It's a sad and popular fact that aggression is often considered strength. People follow aggressive leaders, if it improves their own lifes. But he was a nutcase nonetheless. (Of course, in those days it may have been accepted, but if someone said today: "We must wipe clean that bunch of people over there because some of them has been infected by a terrible mental disorder in my opinion and God says: dispose of them", we would take it for what it is - hopefully - and ignore that person, or possibly even have the coo-coo arrested.)
  13. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    17 Jan '06 12:28
    Originally posted by stocken
    Moses was a nutcase.
    I wonder if the famous persecution complex didn't begin in Egypt.
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    17 Jan '06 13:18
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    I wonder if the famous persecution complex didn't begin in Egypt.
    Noone can tell from where the first nutcase came.
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    17 Jan '06 13:19
    Originally posted by stocken
    Noone can tell from where the first nutcase came.
    --or what made them crack!
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