26 Mar 14
Originally posted by divegeesterInsult? It was not meant to be. Its the truth. The OSAS doctrine has removed the teachings of Christ from the gospel, and even has the effect of making those who believe in doing good works feel guilty about doing it.
Insults so early in the thread, good work.
26 Mar 14
Originally posted by divegeesterThe name Jesus is not the important thing for eternal life. The belief in the Messiah [which includes following his commandments] is. Brian from Hebron, son of the virgin Martha could very have been the Son of God, chosen to die on the cross and suffer for the sins of man. The name Brian or Jesus is not what gives eternal life. It is the act of faith which leads us to FOLLOW the Messiah that is critical. I take the trouble to make that distinction because I often hear people shouting the name of Jesus in their preaching, and calling on Jesus to save them. They have misunderstood the Bible. You can shout and cry all you like on the name Jesus but if your heart is far from Him, your shouting will fall on deaf ears. Frist it is important to understand what it means for your heart and mind to be with Christ. This is the failing of the OSAS doctrine. There is no focus on the changing of the inner man. It is all about mouth faith and mouth worship, and about talking, instead of doing.
You said that all that matters is that people follow his (Jesus) commands. You then said in reply to me that it doesn't matter if he was just a carpenter (ie not gods son etc) as "anyone" could be the messiah. I pointed out that this would mean if someone else was the messiah (let's call him Brian) then all the people would not be following Jesus command ...[text shortened]... someone else's. Eg Brian's.
Then you suggested my understanding was dulled.
Good thinking.
26 Mar 14
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhouseWho am I going to believe, you or the gospels ?
But all you have of 'his' commandments are the hearsay from other people. He never wrote anything down himself, since he was illiterate. So all you have is what other people purported about him which is usually packed with exaggerations and outright lies.
Hold on let me think.
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26 Mar 14
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999But to be clear, you said that it isn't important that Jesus is the messiah as long as there is one, right? My point is, what if Jesus was not the Messiah, then who's teaching are you following?
The name Jesus is not the important thing for eternal life. The belief in the Messiah [which includes following his commandments] is. Brian from Hebron, son of the virgin Martha could very have been the Son of God, chosen to die on the cross and suffer for the sins of man. The name Brian or Jesus is not what gives eternal life. It is the act of faith which l ...[text shortened]... e inner man. It is all about mouth faith and mouth worship, and about talking, instead of doing.
Furthermore, don't you think it is essential for the Christian faith that Jesus is the Messiah? You've sort of already said that it isn't, I guess I'm just struggling to take that in.
26 Mar 14
Originally posted by divegeesterI am following the teachings of Jesus Christ who is the Messiah.
But to be clear, you said that it isn't important that Jesus is the messiah as long as there is one, right? My point is, what if Jesus want the Messiah, then who's teaching are you following?
Furthermore, don't you think it is essential for the Christian faith that Jesus is the Messiah? You've sort of already said that it isn't, I guess I'm just struggling to take that in.
It is important for Christians to follow Jesus the Messiah. yes.
Maybe Im not understanding your point.
The Messiah could have been anyone. Since the teachings of the Bible establish that Jesus Chrsit is the Messiah then as far as Chrsitians are concerned then its Jesus. The Messiah's name could have been some other name. It is not the name that is the important thing. Its the fact that whoever he is, he is the Messiah and he must be followed to get eternal life. The foolish focus on the NAME is what I am saying is nonsense. Its the TEACHINGS OF THE MESSIAH that is important.
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26 Mar 14
Originally posted by Rajk999I see, that's clearer to me what you believe about this now, thanks.
I am following the teachings of Jesus Christ who is the Messiah.
It is important for Christians to follow Jesus the Messiah. yes.
Maybe Im not understanding your point.
The Messiah could have been anyone. Since the teachings of the Bible establish that Jesus Chrsit is the Messiah then as far as Chrsitians are concerned then its Jesus. The Messiah's ...[text shortened]... n the NAME is what I am saying is nonsense. Its the TEACHINGS OF THE MESSIAH that is important.
26 Mar 14
Originally posted by divegeesterBlame it on the limitations of writing [and my inability to be clear as well]. If we were sipping a cold one in a beach bar down in my neck of the woods, it would have been much easier to understand me 🙂
I see, that's clearer to me what you believe about this now, thanks.
26 Mar 14
Originally posted by divegeesterJust that I feel and see that I have not done always what is right and I'm not worried about my salvation ( I'm neither a OSAS or otherwise) but I trust in the character and nature of God. I just see my fallen nature that's all.
Why do you feel it (what you posted) is a judgement on you Manny?
Manny
26 Mar 14
Originally posted by menace71Do you think that the Good Samaritan always did what was right? Christ does not expect perfection.
Just that I feel and see that I have not done always what is right and I'm not worried about my salvation ( I'm neither a OSAS or otherwise) but I trust in the character and nature of God. I just see my fallen nature that's all.
Manny
26 Mar 14
Originally posted by menace71According to what I've read over the years, that it wasn't written by John is the majority view among bible scholars. The Gospel's actual writers were still working on it and changing it many decades after John's death.
Was there some evidence that you read or saw to make you believe the Gospel of John was written by others other than John ?
27 Mar 14
Originally posted by FMFI'll have to look into that but some of letters and the style of the writer comes through. All of Paul's epistles you can tell there from Him. 3 John seems different from the Gospel of John but I'm not familiar with this info.
According to what I've read over the years, that it wasn't written by John is the majority view among bible scholars. The Gospel's actual writers were still working on it and changing it many decades after John's death.
Manny
27 Mar 14
RajK,
You Typed
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None of those things are of any value. People will argue about irrelevancies until the cows come home. What is of value is if we follow His commandments. Nothing else matters.
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You are deceived. It is important to be able to depend on Christ. Who is He is very much matters.
Otherwise, someone could say, I don't care who the Devil is, I just obey his commandments and that is all I need to worry about!
Rajk, you are deceived about how to be saved. Doing good is done "AFTER" you are saved and out of obedience to be what God wants you to be. Before being saved, good works accomplish no eternal salvation for you or anyone else.
King James Version
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2 Corinthians 5: 21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Romans 3: 21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Romans 10: 3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.