✴Jesus ✴

Menance,
God does expect perfection. Christ provided perfection and became the Savior for all people.

The good samaritan was a parable about how to love your neighbor. It wasn't a parable about how to get to God.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
RajK,
You Typed
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None of those things are of any value. People will argue about irrelevancies until the cows come home. What is of value is if we follow His commandments. Nothing else matters.
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You are deceived. It is important to be able to depend on Christ. Who is He is very much matters.

Otherwise, someone cou ...[text shortened]... establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

If the Devil's principles were morally worthy, then why not follow them? Why is that a bad thing?

RajK,
You Typed
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You can shout and cry all you like on the name Jesus but if your heart is far from Him, your shouting will fall on deaf ears.
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That is correct. We must repent(change our mind) unto salvation. However, we do not have to fulfill all righteousness to go to God, Christ did that for us. We cannot do it in our humanity unless God gives us the power. Even then, we have already "blown it"! Christ is Most Necessary and Indispensable!

SwissGambit,
I am pointing out that Christ Himself is indispensable and is important as to who He is. Works are not the way of salvation.

Satan is not the way of salvation, nor is works. Christ is indeed necessary.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Do you think that the Good Samaritan always did what was right? Christ does not expect perfection.

Jesus Christ has a salvation in which He anticipates and promises that eventually we shall be perfect.

Matthew 5:48 - "You therefore shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."

The difference between your teaching and His is that He expects this perfection to arrive by the power of His grace. You expect it to come by Old Testament LAW keeping.

Jesus eagerly and radiantly expects His indwelling grace, in the course of eternal life, to perfect His believers. The Father Who begot them will, by His own divine life and nature, also perfect the saved.

You see Rakj999, you think OSAS means a cheap salvation. The opposite is the case. OSAS means that Christ will save His redeemed people to the UTTERMOST.

The book of Hebrews promises Christ the perpetually interceding High Priest is able to save the redeemed sinner to the uttermost.

" But He, because He abides forever, has His priesthood unalterable. Hence also He is able to save to the uttermost those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them." (Hebrews 7:25) .

Your railing against salvation as a gift of God has the opposite effect that you intend. It is by grace of God He is able to transform us to the uttermost so that He can say "You shall be perfect even as your heavenly Father is perfect."

It is because of the Father's LIFE and grace that the saved can be perfected.

Let's see if we can get you convinced. Jesus in His prayer says that the believers, ALL of them, will be PERFECTED. That means undergo a PROCESS of ongoing perfecting.

"I in them and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one, that the world may know that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me." (John 17:23)

Do you think that prayer will not be answered in full ?
I believe that that prayer of the Son of God cannot go unanswered.
And for that reason we believe in the gift of eternal life that once received we cannot lose.

Abraham the "father of faith" received a promise and exhortation from Jehovah God the Almighty very much the same as Matt. 5:48..

"And when Abram was ninety-nine years old, Jehovah appeared to Abram and said to him,

I am the All-sufficient God; Walk before Me, and be perfect." (Genesis 17:1)

Because the begetting Father is perfect His children born with His life and nature eventually are perfected and walk before Him perfect. He is the All-sufficient God who is ABLE to supply man with all that man needs to reproduce the living of the Son of God in every saved person.

For this reason we embrace eternal life as a gift that God may have the time to perfect His sons.

The ALL-SUFFICIENT God is ABLE to perfect His redeemed people -

" But to Him who is able to guard you from stumbling and to set you before His glory without blemish in exultation, To the only wise God our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord be glory, majesty, might, and authority before all time and now and unto all eternity. Amen." (Jude 24,25)

Did you see that? He is ABLE to present us before His glory without blemish.

Did you see that this God ordained for the saved before the foundation of the world ?

"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)

This is one reason why you need to stop fighting against the assurance of eternal redemption. For it is only because of eternal redemption as an irrevocable plan that God can perfect through His organic salvation, sons of God without blemish - ie. perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect (Matt. 5:48) .

Originally posted by divegeester
The difficulty with your perspective on "salvation" is that it seems impossible to know exactly what god does or indeed doesn't expect.

Do you understand the words of Christ in Matt 5, 6 & 7 ?

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
SwissGambit,
I am pointing out that Christ Himself is indispensable and is important as to who He is. Works are not the way of salvation.

Satan is not the way of salvation, nor is works. Christ is indeed necessary.

One of these days you are going to say something that is not in the playbook, and it's going to blow our minds.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
One of these days you are going to say something that is not in the playbook, and it's going to blow our minds.

Nothing wrong with going by the playbook.

You go by yours, without fail 99.9999998 % of the time.

"Being Proved Wrong - Its Not That Bad " was a possible exception.

Originally posted by sonship
Jesus Christ has a salvation in which He anticipates and promises that eventually we shall be perfect.

[b]Matthew 5:48 - "You therefore shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."

The difference between your teaching and His is that He expects this perfection to arrive by the power of His grace. You expect it to come by Old Testament ...[text shortened]... s of God without blemish - ie. perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect (Matt. 5:48) .[/b]

O holy one from the Council of God, please excuse my ignorance.

Im just following what Jesus Christ said. Hope you dont mind.

Originally posted by Rajk999
O holy one from the Council of God, please excuse my ignorance.

Im just following what Jesus Christ said. Hope you dont mind.

Why resort to sarcasm ?

These things I share with you are for the common reading of all seekers of the will of God. There is no elitism going on here.

While you're following what Jesus said, remember Matthew 5:48.

You said He doesn't expect perfection. You said it - "following what Jesus said".

Originally posted by sonship
Why resort to sarcasm ?

These things I share with you are for the common reading of all seekers of the will of God. There is no elitism going on here.

While you're following what Jesus said, remember [b]Matthew 5:48.

You said He doesn't expect perfection. You said it - "following what Jesus said".[/b]

God's will is that everyone be obedient to the commandments of Christ and follow after righteousness.

What you teach is something totally alien to the teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by menace71
Who was (is) Jesus ? A real person ? A prophet or wise man? A Spiritual being ? Was he a son of God ? Or the one and only Son of God ? Is He God (the trinity) ? Was He flesh and Blood like the rest of us ?

Manny

In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Gospel of John. Chapter 1

Originally posted by SwissGambit
If the Devil's principles were morally worthy, then why not follow them? Why is that a bad thing?

When the devil rejected God, he also rejected everything of moral value. He was the most gifted Angel, and in his pride rejected God and God's love. The devil retains his gifts except those of love. And as Paul states, without love, they are nothing. (meaning the gifts.)

Originally posted by sonship
Nothing wrong with going by the playbook.

You go by yours, without fail 99.9999998 % of the time.

[b] "Being Proved Wrong - Its Not That Bad " was a possible exception.[/b]

Better for me to go by my playbook than take it spoon-fed from others, as KingOnPoint does.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
When the devil rejected God, he also rejected everything of moral value. He was the most gifted Angel, and in his pride rejected God and God's love. The devil retains his gifts except those of love. And as Paul states, without love, they are nothing. (meaning the gifts.)

I don't care about 'love'. I am interested in whether we follow Jesus because it makes us better people, or we follow Jesus because we are part of a cult of personality.