Originally posted by robbie carrobieSelf determination is yes I can get a blood transfusion if "I" want to and my cult will not disavow me
we claim the right of self determination and you kill each other by the tens of million
in the two most bloodiest conflicts in the entire history if humanity, I dont think we
shall be taking lectures from you about the sanctity of life, that's for sure
(John 13:34-35) . . .I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one
another; just as ...[text shortened]... se who Christ's true disciples are, after all, he did mention
how we would know, didn't he.
Manny
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, but when it comes to homosexuals then it seems you think you CAN butt into what others do with their own bodies.
we claim the right of self determination, no one should be told what to do with their
own body. Did i say we have still killed n one in two world wars unlike the nominal
Christians who are blood-guilty for the lives of millions, just saying, You will know you
are my disciples if you have love among yourselves, stated the Christ.
So which one is it?
Originally posted by karoly aczelbutt in, what the heck are you slavering about? the Bible is quite clear on the matter,
Yes, but when it comes to homosexuals then it seems you think you CAN butt into what others do with their own bodies.
So which one is it?
is it really so difficult for you to grasp?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMost definately Yes! In the Uk and the rest of the world
yes it sure is and as a free moral agent you have the right to exercise the faculty of
conscience in this regard. Would you like to see euthanasia made legal in the UK?
The fact that suicide is illegal (here in australia and I suspect in other places too), speaks volumes about societies inabilty to deal with such problems. As if making it illegal is going to deter someone .
Suicide ,like drug abuse,etc. is a health issue- not a legal one.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieTwist my meaning all you want but the bottom line is that you want the right to self-determination when it comes to blood transfusions but not when it comes to homosexuality and other personal things like smoking,etc.
butt in, what the heck are you slavering about? the Bible is quite clear on the matter,
is it really so difficult for you to grasp?
Originally posted by karoly aczelyes but its only an issue for those with issues, why society needs to address this
Most definately Yes! In the Uk and the rest of the world
The fact that suicide is illegal (here in australia and I suspect in other places too), speaks volumes about societies inabilty to deal with such problems. As if making it illegal is going to deter someone .
Suicide ,like drug abuse,etc. is a health issue- not a legal one.
problem i cannot say for it appears to me to be a decision of the individual. Perhaps
there are some instances where a persons ill health or otherwise has lead them to
attempt it, but this motivation comes from inside the person, not from without. Of
course i am not saying that external factors are not relevant, but the decision comes
from within.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhy do you say I am "slavering" ? What could be the possible reason you would use to justify placing that charge on me?
butt in, what the heck are you slavering about? the Bible is quite clear on the matter,
is it really so difficult for you to grasp?
All I can get from that(ie you saying I'm "slavering" ) is to attempt to cheapen my arguement, bringing my own views into question, when in fact it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. That was uncalled for, and instead of you trying to water down my own views you only come off making yourself seem the more foolish
Originally posted by karoly aczelthat is because, as i have clearly and candidly explained, in our case, the right of self
Twist my meaning all you want but the bottom line is that you want the right to self-determination when it comes to blood transfusions but not when it comes to homosexuality and other personal things like smoking,etc.
determination is relative. we do not expect other to accept this, therefore your
statement is unfounded and quite erroneous.
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Originally posted by karoly aczelbecause you have misunderstood our position entirely, that is why, otherwise you would
Why do you say I am "slavering" ? What could be the possible reason you would use to justify placing that charge on me?
All I can get from that(ie you saying I'm "slavering" ) is to attempt to cheapen my arguement, bringing my own views into question, when in fact it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. That was uncalled for, and instead of you trying to water down my own views you only come off making yourself seem the more foolish
not have issued your statement and made your accusation.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe decision does indeed come from within but if you look at the statistics for suicide in this country for young people (people 25 and under) I think something like 2000 young people commit suicide every year.
yes but its only an issue for those with issues, why society needs to address this
problem i cannot say for it appears to me to be a decision of the individual. Perhaps
there are some instances where a persons ill health or otherwise has lead them to
attempt it, but this motivation comes from inside the person, not from without. Of
course i am not saying that external factors are not relevant, but the decision comes
from within.
If society and especially their families were more supportive and understanding then I believe this figure could be greatly reduced.
Many of these young people that kill themselves yearly are people who do not fit in with their families- like homosexuals- and become very depressed and see no other way out. If the families (and society in general) was more supportive and accepting of these people alternative lifestyles then this figure would be greatly reduced.
Why cant we be more supportive of our own family members like folk in Hungary for example. Over there families accept their sons and daughters much more that say in Australia-where I see mothers giving upto their own children to the police for minor crimes such as marijuana possesion.
I see the families of suicide victims as playing a major part in the persons decision to take their own life.
3 edits
Originally posted by karoly aczelthere are all manner of reasons why young people commit suicide, in fact why anyone
The decision does indeed come from within but if you look at the statistics for suicide in this country for young people (people 25 and under) I think something like 2000 young people commit suicide every year.
If society and especially their families were more supportive and understanding then I believe this figure could be greatly reduced.
Many of t ...[text shortened]... ilies of suicide victims as playing a major part in the persons decision to take their own life.
does. For example here we had fairly recently three asylum seekers who jumped from
one of Europe tallest multi storey buildings to their death rather than return home to
their country of origin, my school friend, a man with a good job and a young family did
it, for no apparent or discernible reason. I think its an over simplification to state that
more support is needed, for sometimes people are reluctant and you dont know until
its over.
I guess alienation is a factor though and perhaps a country like Hungary with a strong
family tradition creates an environment which is less likely to foment suicide. we as
parents must create an environment in which our children can thrive.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieTo have self-determination but only upto a point, ie. to say that it is "relative" is very subjective and seems to be unself-deterministic.
that is because, as i have clearly and candidly explained, in our case, the right of self
determination is relative. we do not expect other to accept this, therefore your
statement is unfounded and quite erroneous.
How can you have self determination for some things and not others? Who says what is acceptable and what isn't? Surely it is not the individual who should be making decisions about his/her own life.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI have not misunderstood your position "entirely" . I know quite a lot about the JW organization, and not just from rhp either. I have met many JWs, some good and some bad, that have given me an insight into the workings of that organization.
because you have misunderstood our position entirely, that is why, otherwise you would
not have issued your statement and made your accusation.
I have always had mixed feelings about the JWs because I do agree with them on some points .(especially their refusal to go to war. This is very admireable and takes some guts). There are some other points as well that I think the JWs have got right. However this does not make up for the 'negative' teachings of the JW organization
Originally posted by karoly aczelbecause a principle may have a bearing upon another principle, for example, the
To have self-determination but only upto a point, ie. to say that it is "relative" is very subjective and seems to be unself-deterministic.
How can you have self determination for some things and not others? Who says what is acceptable and what isn't? Surely it is not the individual who should be making decisions about his/her own life.
principle that life is sacrosanct to god, therefore it is clear that life cannot be taken, this
has repercussions on the principle of self determination, making it relative.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYes, but this is not the example I was using.
because a principle may have a bearing upon another principle, for example, the
principle that life is sacrosanct to god, therefore it is clear that life cannot be taken, this
has repercussions on the principle of self determination, making it relative.
Do you think you could work with the actual content of my posts?