Originally posted by OdBod Hitler used the jewish identity to justify his atrocities.
Does it matter what people use to justify murder, some don't look for any
justification they murder out of hate or greed. The trouble isn't the means
they justify themselves, it is that within the human mindset they want to
kill, so they look for ways and means to justify themselves and sometimes
they just do it out of the honest reason, they just want to.
Originally posted by FMF I agree that the full force of the law and the full attention of security services should be brought down upon such criminals in order to apprehend them, stop them, and punish them. While I would not mourn their deaths on the battlefield, if captured and prosecuted, I would not agree with them being executed and would rather see them incarcerated for life.
So you want hundreds and thousands of Jihadi maniacs to be comfortable in jail ..........and at what cost to the public.
Our jails are full already.
In the future we are looking at millions if not tens of millions of combatant Muslims radical nut cases.
Can't you see that it is the teachings of Islam that is responsible for Muslims throwing gay people of 7 story buildings and slaughtering students in their dormitories as they sleep.
Islam must be wiped from this planet.................just like the Hitler's Third Reich was removed from the earth also for its violence against humanity.
There is nothing good about violent and ugly Islam..............exactly zero.
Originally posted by Dasa So you want hundreds and thousands of Jihadi maniacs to be comfortable in jail ..........and at what cost to the public.
Our jails are full already.
In the future we are looking at millions if not tens of millions of combatant Muslims radical nut cases.
Can't you see that it is the teachings of Islam that is responsible for Muslims throwing gay people ...[text shortened]... lent and ugly Islam..............exactly zero.
Originally posted by Dasa So you want hundreds and thousands of Jihadi maniacs to be comfortable in jail ..........and at what cost to the public.
Well I oppose capital punishment, if that's what you mean. Regardless of their crimes, I think we as a civilization have to foot the bill to incarcerate them in a decent and humane fashion.
Originally posted by Dasa Can't you see that it is the teachings of Islam that is responsible for Muslims throwing gay people of 7 story buildings and slaughtering students in their dormitories as they sleep.
I think anyone who commits murderous acts like these should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Islam must be wiped from this planet...
I think anyone who sets out to do this indiscriminately and by murderous means should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Originally posted by divegeester I'm aware of what various online "persons" claim. I'm more interested your assertion that Hitler (let's remember that according to goofy internet law you have already lost the debate by bringing Hitler up) was a Christian because he said he was and therefore all the Nazi atrocities (in particular in this thread, deaths) can be attributed to mainstream Ch ...[text shortened]... me token accept that mainstream Islam is responsible for all the atrocities carried out by ISIS?
acknowledging that it was RC who brought up Hitler (and Stalin, and so on...) so I don't really run foul of Godwin's law in this instance
let's have a look at what I said ...
well Hitler was a Christian so religion seems to be doing pretty well on the slaughtering front ... would you now care to tell us how many people have been slaughtered through the centuries for being heretics, heathens, witches, and so on ... ?
Thanks in advance
1) You said I asserted he was a Christian; yep, you got my number there - guilty as charged.
2) You said I concluded that all the Nazi atrocities can be attributed to mainstream Christianity.
Really? From a glib comment about how religion is doing just as well as non-religion in the killing front (because RC just threw a load of stats at us) you concluded (2)?
Originally posted by Agerg Well[hidden]acknowledging that it was RC who brought up Hitler (and Stalin, and so on...) so I don't really run foul of Godwin's law in this instance[/hidden]let's have a look at what I said ...[quote]well Hitler was a Christian so religion seems to be doing pretty well on the slaughtering front ... would you now care to tell us how many people have been slaug ...[text shortened]... n-religion in the killing front (because RC just threw a load of stats at us) you concluded (2)?
Your deflection of my (albeit extraneous) question on ISIS is noted. Happy for you to explain how you feel that Hitler was a Chrisitan and yet his crimes are not attributable to his christian religion? Within the context of this argument, that is.
Originally posted by KellyJay Does it matter what people use to justify murder, some don't look for any
justification they murder out of hate or greed. The trouble isn't the means
they justify themselves, it is that within the human mindset they want to
kill, so they look for ways and means to justify themselves and sometimes
they just do it out of the honest reason, they just want to.
I agree with you KJ. The problem as I see it , is that evil people will use any excuse to justify atrocities both religious and political. Any organisation that divides people will provide such opportunities. This is why I subscribe to a position of Atheistic Humanitarianism,because it seeks bring people together without any contentious preconditions.
Originally posted by divegeester Your deflection of my (albeit extraneous) question on ISIS is noted. Happy for you to explain how you feel that Hitler was a Chrisitan and yet his crimes are not attributable to his christian religion? Within the context of this argument, that is.
I didn't deflect the (arguably loaded) question about my views on ISIS, I declined to answer it (and you note it was not relevant).
As I said in my last response, it was a half-hearted comment towards RC (who started the who's the most evil game) that his wall of stats don't leave religion smelling of roses. As for Hitler being a Christian - let's recall he wasn't just *a person*, he wasn't representative of the average person, he was a person in a position of extraordinary power. He had an opportunity to make real his personal ideology by virtue of him being the german chancellor and head of the Nazi regime ... most normal Christians germans committed the atrocities they did, not because of their own convictions, but because of Hitlers'.
Religion (includes Christianity) in of itself is not a cause of death and despair. It is blind adherence to dogma, and charismatic leaders (in this case Hitler) using people as their tools (under the banner of a given religion) which is that cause.
Originally posted by Agerg I didn't deflect the (arguably loaded) question about my views on ISIS, I declined to answer it (and you note it was not relevant).
As I said in my last response, it was a half-hearted comment towards RC (who started the who's the most evil game) that his wall of stats don't leave religion smelling of roses. As for Hitler being a Christian - l ...[text shortened]... Hitler) using people as their tools (under the banner of a given religion) which is that cause.
Do you attribute Hitler's "deaths" to Christianity? If not, then to which religion? If so, do you attribute ISIS "deaths" to mainstream Isalm?
Originally posted by OdBod I agree with you KJ. The problem as I see it , is that evil people will use any excuse to justify atrocities both religious and political. Any organisation that divides people will provide such opportunities. This is why I subscribe to a position of Atheistic Humanitarianism,because it seeks bring people together without any contentious preconditions.
It really does not matter what umbrella you claim you are a part of there
will humans in your umbrella too! Contentions arise when we divide
ourselves and in only one place will the divisions disappear which is with
the One that is above us all in my opinion. Without God we are just a
divided people looking for ways to justify us over them.
Originally posted by KellyJay It really does not matter what umbrella you claim you are a part of there
will humans in your umbrella too! Contentions arise when we divide
ourselves and in only one place will the divisions disappear which is with
the One that is above us all in my opinion. Without God we are just a
divided people looking for ways to justify us over them.
KJ,even the religious groups using the bible cannot agree , let alone agreement with non biblical religions. To suggest that religion unites us is not the world I see. Our common bond is our Humanity I think we should concentrate on that.
During the Second World War in Yugoslavia, as with the Catholic Church in Croatia, many Muslim clerics in Bosnia and Kosovo were willing accomplices in the genocide of the nations Serbian, Jewish and Roma population. From 1941 until 1945, the Nazi-installed regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust (known as the Porajmos by the Roma), killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens - 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, they were helped by Muslim fundamentalists in Bosnia and Kosovo who were openly supported by the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. A notorious anti-Semite, he openly encouraged Muslims to join Nazi units that would be later implicated in genocide and crimes against humanity - the infamous Hanjar (or Handschar) 13th Waffen SS division. One of these crimes was the The Massacre at Koritska Jama Gorge, in Bosnia during 1941. The Nazi's also established a puppet state in Serbia under General Milan Nedic, who along with the Cetniks also particapated in the Holocaust in wartime Croatia (which included Bosnia) and Serbia.
What united al-Husseini and the Third Reich was a common hatred of the Jewish people.
A substantial number of Muslims made common cause with the NAZIs during World War II. There was considerable sympathy for the NAZIs in the Middle East and North Africa. The Grand Mufti in Palestine provked anti-Jewish and anti British riots even before the War. There was an anti-British coup in Iraq (1941). Anti-British forces gained considerable strength in Iran where the Soviets and British intervened (1941). There was considerable anti-British sentiment in Egypt which was prepared to welcome Rommel and the Afrika Korps with open arms (1942). The NAZIs never conquered Egypt, but they did occupy areas with Muslim populations, including Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union. Several Muslim SS units were formed to fight with the Wehremacht. All of these units after the War were accussed of commiting honredous attrocities.
Originally posted by RJHinds Adolf Hitler may have been a Roman Catholic, but by that time Protestant Christians considered the Roman Catholic Church as having become apostate.
During the Second World War in Yugoslavia, as with the Catholic Church in Croatia, many Muslim cler ...[text shortened]... f commiting honredous attrocities.
It's a shame we have to fight over imaginary gods. Like the Christian one, like the Muslim one, like the Hindu one and all the others. All imaginary. Anything to have a nice war I guess.
04 Apr '15 01:471 edit
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Another religious massacre.
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