1. Joined
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    20 Apr '05 23:23
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    ... an atmosphere of love, kindness, and fellowship. I've always looked for a sanctuary and haven't yet found it in the Catholic church. Maybe you guys have some advice for me.
    Buddhism fills this criteria.
  2. Joined
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    20 Apr '05 23:29
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Del. Kirksey. Sorry if I've missed anybody else. You guys - I like reading your posts. We seem to share the view that religion and God are supposed to make smooth life's choppy waters, and don't use it as a hammer to beat people over the head about lakes of fire and how wrong everybody else is.

    I'm looking to get reinvolved with religion (t ...[text shortened]... tuary and haven't yet found it in the Catholic church. Maybe you guys have some advice for me.
    Why do you need to follow somone? Do as Paul said when he said not to let men tell you what to believe, but to go by the Bible, Alot of churches put religion in front of God.

    Ben
  3. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
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    22 Apr '05 09:00
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Don't suppose I need to follow, exactly. Looking for fellowship, for a group of like-minded people, i.e. a group of people that can believe in God without judging everybody that doesn't think like they do. People who believe that everybody's got different names for the same person, who believe that as long as you're trying to be a good person and ...[text shortened]... on't think just like we do, you're going to hell." Ah. Don't have alot of time for that.
    "But we are all like an unclean thing, and all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags" (Isa. 64:6).

    No matter how good we are, God still judges our sin if we don't wipe them clean with the blood of Christ Jesus.

    Please don't make the same mistake so many are making and focusing on this finite life instead of your eternal one.

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

    John 14:6-7 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well."

    Romans 10:9-11 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

    Revelation 3:20 [Jesus said] "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me."

  4. London
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    22 Apr '05 11:01
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Don't suppose I need to follow, exactly. Looking for fellowship, for a group of like-minded people, i.e. a group of people that can believe in God without judging everybody that doesn't think like they do.

    Every person who thinks a certain way judges people who don't. The person who believes that articles should be sold at a fair value judges the shopkeeper who's trying to fleece him. The person who believes the Govt. should give him unemployment benefits judges the Govt. that doesn't. The Buddhist judges the non-vegetarian. The Christian judges the heathen. Even you, in your statement above, judge people who are not like-minded. Or is there a specific sense in which you use the word "judge"?

    Every person who believes in a form of God (however wide or narrow that interpretation might be) will believe that certain attitudes, behaviours or actions will be pleasing to that God, should be adopted and will result in a reward of some kind from that God. This could be as generic as "Love one another" or as specific as "Kill all left-handed Twinkie-eaters". Such a person will also believe that attitudes, behaviours or actions not pleasing to God will result in negative consequences of some kind.

    I guess the point is - I don't know how you'll avoid the [human] fact of judgment.

    People who believe that everybody's got different names for the same person, who believe that as long as you're trying to be a good person and help people, you're doing just fine.

    Again, what does it mean to be a good person? Would you rely on an absolute standard/guideline or a subjective one? If the former, which one? If the latter, is the conscience sufficient to determine goodness?

    I don't want to discourage your quest. Just putting some questions you might consider (I'm sure you've already been looking into them).
  5. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
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    22 Apr '05 12:14
    Originally posted by flyUnity
    Why do you need to follow somone? Do as Paul said when he said not to let men tell you what to believe, but to go by the Bible, Alot of churches put religion in front of God.

    Ben
    wasn't Paul a man?
  6. Standard memberMaustrauser
    Lord Chook
    Stringybark
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    22 Apr '05 12:18
    Originally posted by Darfius
    "But we are all like an unclean thing, and all of our righteousnesses are like filthy rags" (Isa. 64:6).

    No matter how good we are, God still judges our sin if we don't wipe them clean with the blood of Christ Jesus.

    Please don't make the same mistake so many are making and focusing on this finite life instead of your eternal one.

    [snip]


    Darfius,
    When will you learn that quoting the Bible to prove a point isn't very useful. For every verse you find that supports your view, you can always find a verse that proves something else.

    For example, I claim thatGod likes to brown eye Moses (I think Americans use the term 'moon' rather than 'brown eye'😉.

    And the Bible proves it!

    Exodus 33:23 (King James Version)
    And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts..

    Well thank you God!



  7. Donationkirksey957
    Outkast
    With White Women
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    22 Apr '05 12:29
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Del. Kirksey. Sorry if I've missed anybody else. You guys - I like reading your posts. We seem to share the view that religion and God are supposed to make smooth life's choppy waters, and don't use it as a hammer to beat people over the head about lakes of fire and how wrong everybody else is.

    I'm looking to get reinvolved with religion (t ...[text shortened]... tuary and haven't yet found it in the Catholic church. Maybe you guys have some advice for me.
    Thank you. I guess it depends on where you are in life and what you are looking for. If I were a young person, I would want to be in a church where there was an active youth or young person's program with a lot of cute girls (I'm being honest here). If I had kids, I would want a church that had a good children's program. I am always looking for church to be a place where I can contribute something as well as feel that I can worship without having to check my brain at the door. I want a church where I can hear questions and feel that the answer is in the relationships and discussions and not the "right answer."

    Right now I am visiting a small Episcopal church where the rector there has started a very interesting Bible study. It is the study of passages that one would not read to children. Stories of rape, murder, sexual mutilation, incest, etc. We talk about the passage and our feelings about it and we also talk about us and how it might relate to us.

    I also like good music so that is something that would draw me to a church. I encourage people to visit around and get a wide perspective. Go visit a synogogue. Go visit a mosque. Nothing wrong with that.

    To me it is essential that ministers engage in a process of continuing education. One reason why there is such a crisis in pastoral authority and integrity is that ministers are poorly education. Many, but not all. We ask, require doctors, nurses, and teachers to enhance their educations, but rarely ministers.
  8. London
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    22 Apr '05 12:44
    Originally posted by Maustrauser

    Darfius,
    When will you learn that quoting the Bible to prove a point isn't very useful. For every verse you find that supports your view, you can always find a verse that proves something else.

    For example, I claim thatGod likes to brown eye Moses (I think Americans use the term 'moon' rather than 'brown eye'😉.

    And the Bible proves it!

    ...[text shortened]... nd I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts..

    Well thank you God!



    I laughed so hard tears were flowing down my cheeks and my colleagues thought I was crazy (well, crazier than usual). Gets my rec.

    Cheers,

    LH
  9. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
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    22 Apr '05 13:08
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    I laughed so hard tears were flowing down my cheeks and my colleagues thought I was crazy (well, crazier than usual). Gets my rec.

    Cheers,

    LH
    we finally agree on something LOL
  10. Gangster Land
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    22 Apr '05 14:141 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Del. Kirksey. Sorry if I've missed anybody else. You guys - I like reading your posts. We seem to share the view that religion and God are supposed to make smooth life's choppy waters, and don't use it as a hammer to beat people ...[text shortened]... t in the Catholic church. Maybe you guys have some advice for me.
    Well Sas, I'm currently looking for a Church where if you are seen there it is NOT a foregone conclusion that you are a republican. Don't get me wrong I can and do spend lots of time with conservatives but I'm leery of any institution that attracts only one political party and seems not to care about the other. You would be amazed how difficult a search this has proven to be.

    I have found plenty of churches that attract a more liberal flock but they are often way over the top. There is a Church in Portland, Oregon that you should try called Imago Dei (sp?). I love it there, very good people from all walks of life and political persuasions yet still very much grounded in biblical tradition. So far, I have been unable to find an acceptable replacement church here in Washington DC.

    The fact is, for many of us, Christians are just not our crowd, even though we are Christians ourselves. Honestly, the top five most annoying people I have ever met, I met at church. These are not the sort of encounters that make you want to hurry back to church. It is for this reason that I often refer to myself as a "Christian fearing Christian".

    I'm not trying to discourage you, but I have found organized Christianity to be less than stellar when it comes to encouraging my relationship with God. Worse still in regards to encouraging my relationship with other Christians. Having said that, let me stress that i have met many very wonderful people that happened to be Christian in all corners of my life. On the golf course, in the store, at work etc etc. Basically, there are lots of excellent Christians and very few excellent churches. This is why I believe excellent Christians like Kirk, Luciferhammer (sp?), Coletti, Del. and others need to stop tolerating sub par churches.

    On a happier note...I have said many times and will say again that there is nothing wrong with Christianity that cannot be fixed by what is right with Christianity; but we need Christians to stop tolerating and start fixing.

    (Please note the above quote was stolen from Bill Clinton when he said "There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be fixed by what is right with America."😉

    TheSkipper
  11. Standard memberorfeo
    Missing 285 + 1
    On a ship of fools
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    22 Apr '05 14:27
    Skipper (or anyone else who's interested), have you ever heard of a writer called Philipp Yancey? He tends to write rather candidly about problems in Christianity, including the church.

    The book of his I'm thinking of (the only one I've read complete so far, just dipped into others) is called "Soul Survivor" and it has a subheading along the lines of "how my faith survived the Church". Each chapter is about someone who inspired him in his faith (several of the people are NOT Christians), but along the way he reveals some rather startling things about growing up in churches in southern USA.
  12. Joined
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    22 Apr '05 14:36
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    The Buddhist judges the non-vegetarian.
    Buddhists are not necessarily vegetarians. Vegetarianism is not required of a person who takes refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. Even monks are not prohibited from eating meat, as long as the animal was not specifically killled for their benefit.

    Sorry if I'm being picky, but I'm just trying to point out this fact. 🙂
  13. London
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    22 Apr '05 15:12
    Originally posted by eagles54
    Buddhists are not necessarily vegetarians. Vegetarianism is not required of a person who takes refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. Even monks are not prohibited from eating meat, as long as the animal was not specifically killled for their benefit.

    Sorry if I'm being picky, but I'm just trying to point out this fact. 🙂
    Good spot. You're right of course. "Buddhists judge butchers" should work instead.
  14. An' it harms none...
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    22 Apr '05 19:23
    Originally posted by Pullhard
    Buddhism fills this criteria.
    So does Wicca
  15. Standard memberthesonofsaul
    King of the Ashes
    Trying to rise ....
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    24 Apr '05 10:53
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    Well Sas, I'm currently looking for a Church where if you are seen there it is NOT a foregone conclusion that you are a republican. Don't get me wrong I can and do spend lots of time with conservatives but I'm leery of any institution that attracts only one political party and seems not to care about the other. You would be amazed how difficult a sea ...[text shortened]... othing wrong with America that cannot be fixed by what is right with America."😉

    TheSkipper
    Well, the United Methodists are quite liberal. If you want something more churchy, the ELCA Lutherarns fit the bill (I once say a congregation of them walk all around their neighborhood on Good Friday following a guy carrying a massive wooden cross) but also allow gay pastors (if they promise abstinence). I also recall seeing a sign outside a Baptist church saying "Jesus died to take away our sins, not our minds." Thought that was pretty cool.

    ... --- ...
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