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    17 Jan '13 17:551 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    The question in the OP is about whether other Christians agree with your stance on slavery.
    here is the title of your slanderous post,

    Are Christians permitted to own slaves?

    why don't you produce some Biblical evidence which refutes the assertion?
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    17 Jan '13 17:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    here is the title of your slanderous post,

    Are Christians permitted to own slaves?

    why don't you produce some Biblical evidence which refutes the assertion?
    The thread title is "slanderous"? How so?
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    17 Jan '13 18:041 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    The thread title is "slanderous"? How so?
    you have stated that its my personal opinion that a Christian is permitted to own slaves, when in fact, its the Biblical stance, that is a misrepresentation making you a slanderer. Now are you going to answer your question or are you going to continue to make it personal?
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    17 Jan '13 18:08
    Does the Bible Condone Slavery?

    LOVE of neighbour is one of the fundamental teachings of the Bible. Love, however, is diametrically opposed to the concept of oppressive slavery. Hence, some people are puzzled by the mention of slavery in the Bible.

    In ancient times God allowed his people to own slaves. (Genesis 14:14, 15) Even in the days of the apostles, some Christians were slave owners and some were slaves. (Philemon 15, 16) Does this mean that the Bible condones oppressive slavery?

    Social Structures in Conflict With Bible Principles
    By the time the Bible began to be written, humans had already established social structures and economic systems that conflicted with godly principles. While some of the practices involved were condemned in his written Law, God chose to tolerate others, such as slavery.

    Regarding the social structure of the ancient nation of Israel, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia states: “It was meant to function as a brotherhood in which, ideally, there were no poor [and there was] no exploitation of widows, waifs, or orphans.” Hence, more than simply allowing an already established social and economic structure, God’s Law regulated slavery so that, if practiced, slaves would be treated in a humane and loving manner.

    Slavery in Bible History
    Consider the following regulations included in the Law given through Moses:
    *Kidnapping a man and then selling him was punishable by death. (Exodus 21:16) However, if despite all the provisions made to prevent poverty, an Israelite found himself deeply in debt, perhaps as a result of poor management, he could sell himself as a slave. In some cases he might even be able to earn a surplus by which he could redeem himself.—Leviticus 25:47-52.
    *This was not the oppressive kind of slavery that has been common in many lands through the ages. Leviticus 25:39, 40 says: “In case your brother grows poor alongside you and he has to sell himself to you, you must not use him as a worker in slavish service. He should prove to be with you like a hired laborer, like a settler.” So this was a loving provision to care for Israel’s poorest.
    *A person found guilty of stealing who was unable to make full restitution according to the Law could be sold as a slave and in this way pay off his debt. (Exodus 22:3) When he had worked off the debt, he could go free.
    *Cruel and abusive slavery was not allowed under God’s Law to Israel. While masters were allowed to discipline their slaves, excesses were forbidden. A slave killed by his master was to be avenged. (Exodus 21:20) If the slave was maimed, losing a tooth or an eye, he was set free.—Exodus 21:26, 27.
    *The maximum time that any Israelite would have to serve as a slave was six years. (Exodus 21:2) Hebrew slaves were set free in the seventh year of their service. The Law demanded that every 50 years all Israelite slaves were to be set free nationwide, regardless of how long the individual had been a slave.—Leviticus 25:40, 41.
    *When a slave was released, the master was required to be generous toward him. Deuteronomy 15:13, 14 says: “In case you should send him out from you as one set free, you must not send him out empty-handed. You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress.”
    Later, in the days of Jesus and his apostles, slavery was an entrenched practice in the Roman Empire. As Christianity spread, it was inevitable that individuals who were slaves and others who were slave owners would come in contact with the good news and become Christians. Neither Jesus Christ himself nor his apostles preached a gospel of social liberation, as if trying to reform the existing system. Rather, both slaves and slave owners were admonished to love one another as spiritual brothers. Colossians 4:1; 1 Timothy 6:2.

    The End of Slavery
    As is the case with every Bible-related question, the issue of slavery must be considered in context. A careful examination of the Scriptures reveals that God deplores the mistreatment of humans.

    Such an examination also reveals that the kind of slavery practiced by God’s people in the Bible is not the cruel and abusive slavery that is envisioned by most people today. And the Bible shows that God will deliver us from all forms of slavery in due time. Then, all mankind will enjoy true freedom, Isaiah 65:21, 22.

    source: Jehovahs Witnesses
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    17 Jan '13 18:091 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    FMF in his slanderous and slimy way has taken the Biblical stance on slavery and made it personal to me, although I did not author or originate it. That is a misrepresentation, whether its libel or slander i cannot say, there is no need for it, all he had to sate was that it was the Biblical stance, for clearly it is, that is why he cannot refute it ...[text shortened]... er recourse but to introduce opinions and perceptions, for clearly the Biblical record is clear.
    Are there Biblical admonitions about how humans should and should not treat one another, and does enslavement that depends on such practices for the acquisition (capture) and retention of people in an enslaved condition, violate these admonitions? This is a question about the general Biblical principles of charity and justice and possibly other Biblical principles and how they apply to enslavement, it is not personal.

    If you say yes to this, would you say it is feasible in a practical sense, to enslave people without violating these Biblical admonitions? Would you say that modern-day cases of enslavement typically heed, or violate, these admonitions? This concerns your personal opinion but I don't mean anything by it.

    Edit: I think you have answered this.
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    17 Jan '13 18:09
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    you have stated that its my personal opinion that a Christian is permitted to own slaves, when in fact, its the Biblical stance, that is a misrepresentation making you a slanderer.
    I shall abandon the other thread and ask the same question here.

    Is your personal stance somehow different from the "Biblical stance"?
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    17 Jan '13 18:10
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Now are you going to answer your question or are you going to continue to make it personal?
    the question in the OP is for your fellow Christians.
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    17 Jan '13 18:15
    Originally posted by JS357
    Are there Biblical admonitions about how humans should and should not treat one another, and does enslavement that depends on such practices for the acquisition (capture) and retention of people in an enslaved condition, violate these admonitions? This is a question about the general Biblical principles of charity and justice and possibly other Biblical princi ...[text shortened]... iolate, these admonitions? This concerns your personal opinion but I don't mean anything by it.
    please see the citation above, all these things that you mention are perfectly valid and applicable, but context is everything. A Christians treatment of a captive is governed by all of these principles, in fact, i would be surprised to find that any Christian should keep someone in bondage against their will, but the issue is whether it is permitted for a Christian to do so, not what their desire is. I have no wish to discuss my personal opinions, but to simply ascertain what the Biblical stance is, so I beg to be excused, if you don't mind.
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    17 Jan '13 18:16
    Originally posted by FMF
    the question in the OP is for your fellow Christians.
    so you are just doing them a favour, how thoughtful and kind of you, perhaps you maybe canonised one day or treated as a sufi saint.
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    17 Jan '13 18:181 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    I shall abandon the other thread and ask the same question here.

    Is your personal stance somehow different from the "Biblical stance"?
    The question is, whether a Christian is permitted to own slaves, not whether they desire to own them or have a personal opinion about owning them. My personal opinions have no relevance to this, I will appreciate it if you therefore refrained from asking about them, thanks, simply because it clouds the matter.
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    17 Jan '13 18:232 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    Are Christians permitted to own slaves?
    So robbie's stance is that Christians ARE permitted to own slaves, local secular laws permitting.

    Any other Christians have a view on this?
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    17 Jan '13 18:262 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Does the Bible Condone Slavery?

    LOVE of neighbour is one of the fundamental teachings of the Bible. Love, however, is diametrically opposed to the concept of oppressive slavery. Hence, some people are puzzled by the mention of slavery in the Bible.

    In ancient times God allowed his people to own slaves. (Genesis 14:14, 15) Even in the days of th ...[text shortened]... time. Then, all mankind will enjoy true freedom, Isaiah 65:21, 22.

    source: Jehovahs Witnesses
    As is the case with every Bible-related question, the issue of slavery must be considered in context. A careful examination of the Scriptures reveals that God deplores the mistreatment of humans.

    Such an examination also reveals that the kind of slavery practiced by God’s people in the Bible is not the cruel and abusive slavery that is envisioned by most people today.


    Actually the Bible does in fact condone a cruel and abusive form of slavery

    For example:

    Exodus 21
    20“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21“If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

    Clearly the Bible is permitting slave to be severely beaten - even to the point of death (so long as the slave doesn't die within "a day or two" ) .

    What does it say about the Watchtower Society that they would tell such a bald faced lie as above?

    What's more, it isn't the only use of deceit by the Watchtower Society in the text you provided in your post.
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    17 Jan '13 18:26
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    so you are just doing them a favour, how thoughtful and kind of you, perhaps you maybe canonised one day or treated as a sufi saint.
    Condoning slavery, for whatever reason, is a serious matter, robbie.
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    17 Jan '13 18:27
    Originally posted by FMF
    So robbie's stance is that they ARE permitted to own slaves, local secular laws permitting.

    Any other Christians have a view on this?
    Its not Robbies stance, it is the Biblical stance.

    The Biblical stance is that they (Christians) ARE permitted to own slaves, local secular laws permitting.

    Any other Christians have a view on this?
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    17 Jan '13 18:281 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Condoning slavery, for whatever reason, is a serious matter, robbie.
    sure FMF, i think about owning and buying slaves all the time 🙄
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