- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by ZahlanziI think you are missing the point.
the bible advocates me killing you for not believing exactly what i do. yet killing non-believers is not so mainstream anymore.
the bible says a lot of things. think of it as a man who did drugs when he was young (and advocated slavery and genocide) but got very nice and wise later on..
then he went senile and talked about revelations.
...[text shortened]... ristians in the world. or use dasa to judge whatever religion he is yelling at us over and over.
The bible is supposed to be a SOURCE of morality. Or rather it's supposed to be written
by/inspired by the Christians puted source of morality... god.
If it has things that you think are good and things you think are bad then it is not your
source of morality. You are judging it by some other external standard.
Which IS my point.
Neither the bible or god are a source of morality, and they are not the source of your morality.
I don't have to take the good from the bible, I can (and do) ignore it utterly.
Because it isn't a source of morality I can just ignore it and derive what is good or bad without
having to deal with it's baggage.
I realise that they didn't get everything wrong, although they gave it a good shot.
But the fact that we can confidently say that they got anything wrong indicates quite clearly that
it is....
A) not a source of morality.
B) not written or inspired by anything even remotely resembling a universe creating deity.
C) Not true.
Which just shot out the entire foundation of your religion.
Your sole reason for believing in a Christian god as opposed to any other (or none) is that there is
this book that claims to tell the story of a god and carry his commandments.
Without that book there is literally nothing to act as a focus for your belief that looks anything like
Christianity.
Now you yourself might believe because of your friends/family/ect believing, or you might have come to
the church on your own. But the religion is based on the words in the book.
The book is as you admit (deeply) flawed and evidently NOT inspired by a god.
Your religion has no basis.
THAT is the point. THAT is why I (and others) point out the evil and atrocities and contradictions and
errors in the bible.
Of course I don't think the vast majority of modern day Christians believe in slavery, or many of the other
evils advocated in the bible. (don't see many calling for people to be stoned for working on the Sabbath...
although you do see plenty of people calling for abortionists to be shot, and fighting gay rights tooth and nail)
But the fact that the bible you claim to be the word of god, and is the source and root of your religion does in
any plain text literal reading ADVOCATES slavery and genocide and rape and owning women and... and... and...
Should be telling you something.
It's telling you it was written by bronze age peasants who didn't know a lot and were frankly evil by modern
day standards. And were backwards even for the time.
If you are not basing your religion on your "inspired by god" holy book then what the hell are you basing it on.
Other than just making it up as you go?
If you can pick and choose what is good and what is not about the bible then why use it at all?
Do you really need the bible to tell you its generally bad to kill people and steal stuff?
I don't.
Originally posted by FMFyes it is, for you have time and again failed to make the distinction, here is your question,
This has not been discussed. It is not the topic at hand. I therefore have not failed to "distinguish" anything. The only "emotional" response there has been here is your apparent anger at being forced out into the open about your views on the legitimacy of slavery.
does the Bible permit a Christian to own slaves,
indeed, what type of slavery we are referring to here is not only pertinent, its fundamental to the question, for clearly, there is no provision made for oppressive slavery, something that your trolling fails to distinguish.
forced out into the open, i have nothing to hide, i was perfectly aware of the Biblical position before your trolling tried to make it some kind of issue, when in fact there is none. Nice try but i think you would be used to failure by now considering your entire posting history is the biggest failure, i am thankful in fact for the post for it demonstrates the type of poster you are, an internet troll, trolling for some kind of emotive response, EPIC FAIL!
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo far it's 1-2. You reckon Christians are permitted to own slaves. Suzianne and Zahlanzi reckon no. The OP's intent is to solicit the views of other Christians.
I have provided reasons, they have provided nothing but opinions, theirs, unsubstantiated at that, but i understand that opinion is the currency that you deal in and has somehow found legitimacy in your mind, so be it, the scriptural record stands and so far not a single person is able to refute it.
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by FMFI am perfectly aware but it is self evident, you are uninterested in reason, considering you have produced none nor discussed those reasons I have provided, nor in the nuances of scriptural permission of slavery as opposed to oppressive form, why, because you are an internet troll, thanks for demonstrating it, now if you don't mind, i have a zillion better things to do than be party to your trolling, if you or anyone else is interested in the Biblical stance and the differences, then let me know.
So far it's 1-2. You reckon Christians are permitted to own slaves. Suzianne and Zahlanzi reckon no. The OP's intent is to solicit the views of other Christians.
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOn the contrary. I have been careful to make distinction all along. Throughout the discussion we had, which led to this OP, I mentioned time and time again that I was referring to the kind of slaves and slave owning practices that were described in the OT, as carried out by Hebrews, as governed by Mosaic Law. You claiming that I have "failed to make the distinction" and now you bringing up "sex trafficking" are simply red herrings. The OP and the thread title are entirely clear, your apparent discomfort notwithstanding
yes it is, for you have time and again failed to make the distinction, here is your question,
does the Bible permit a Christian to own slaves,
indeed, what type of slavery we are referring to here is not only pertinent, its fundamental to the question, for clearly, there is no provision made for oppressive slavery, something that your trolling fails to distinguish.
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePeople will make what they will of all these personal remarks directed at me. The OP is clear. A few people have offered their points of view. We shall see how the discussion proceeds.
I am perfectly aware but it is self evident, you are uninterested in reason, considering you have produced none nor discussed those reasons I have provided, nor in the nuances of scriptural permission of slavery as opposed to oppressive form, why, because you are an internet troll, thanks for demonstrating it, now if you don't mind, i have a zillion ...[text shortened]... you or anyone else is interested in the Biblical stance and the differences, then let me know.
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by FMFeveryone can see you are a troll uninterested in honest and legitimate discussion, there is nothing personal about stating facts.
People will make what they will of all these personal remarks directed at me. The OP is clear. A few people have offered their points of view. We shall see how the discussion proceeds.
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePerhaps everyone can see that you are spending a lot of your time directing personal remarks at me instead of engaging properly in this discussion, robbie.
everyone can see you are a troll uninterested in honest and legitimate discussion, there is nothing personal about stating facts.
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by googlefudgeon the contrary, i have provided reasons why the stance is Biblical, i have provided reasons why the distinction should be made between the Biblical stance and oppressive forms of slavery, you have produced your opinions, unsubstantiated and to all intents and purposes irrelevant.
You're scoring nothing but own goals robbie.
18 Jan 13
Originally posted by FMFwhat is there to discuss with you? do tell? you were asked to provide the refutation and you cowardly hid behind your question because you cannot do so, repeating it three times, you were asked to discus the differences between the Biblical stance and oppressive forms of slavery, you would not do so, what is there to discuss with you, nothing, because your posts are empty.
Perhaps everyone can see that you are spending a lot of your time directing personal remarks at me instead of engaging properly in this discussion, robbie.