Atheism and Religion

Originally posted by KellyJay
Biggest secret about God and man, the fewer things you have between you
and God the better you off you are. You are better off telling God the truth
when the truth is you don't believe in Him or whatever! Only God can
prove God to you, I cannot, only God can make Himself real to you, I
cannot. If someone attempts to be the go between, between you and Go ...[text shortened]... t
took away the barrier between God and man there is no need to build
another barrier.
Kelly

So i need to go to the go-between appointed by God ,(ie,Jesus), and steer clear of all other in-between people and...
...Jesus is actually God anyway so speaking to Jesus IS speaking to God...

Your answers to my two questions were very indirect, a way I may answer someones questions. But thats cool with me. Its the way I am and I believe it is important to stay true to who we are, (or our orientations based on our subsequent dispositions), otherwise we waste out time and only end up with the illusion of actually getting somewhere...

I think christian theists like to be able to label . Put an answer in the gap provided. "Jesus", "God", "The Bible",etc. Often this can lead to circular reasoning.

i have another saying I came up with: "Is what is" .
Means that the BEST answer is already there. God has a name in the bible, has a son, does this and that. Ok. So if that information fits in with the rest of reality then we can give it some creedence.

I think that the "answer" is too heavy for everyone, christian thesits included, thats why they make up their own stories to fill in the gaps of what they do not "know" .

The only way to make inroads with inquiry inot the real nature of reality/god is start with a decent premise.

you ever had a first bardo experience?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So i need to go to the go-between appointed by God ,(ie,Jesus), and steer clear of all other in-between people and...
...Jesus is actually God anyway so speaking to Jesus IS speaking to God...

Your answers to my two questions were very indirect, a way I may answer someones questions. But thats cool with me. Its the way I am and I believe it is impor ...[text shortened]... ality/god is start with a decent premise.

you ever had a first bardo experience?

No, have not had a "first bardo experience," and to tell you the truth I had
to look it up to know what it was you were talking about.

With respect to all the other "go between" I would say yes to that if and
only if that was what they were trying to be to you. Common brothers and
sisters in Christ who are sharing life with you may be used by God to
express what ever you need to hear or see at the moment, but I'd be
willing to bet that many of the life lessons you get from them will be when
they are just living their lives not when they are actually trying to reach
you. 🙂 Not that people cannot deliever a good or great message, but
those lives that are powerful to me are the ones I see day in and day out
and are lived with grace and mercy.

Yes to going to Jesus too, God will work out the details if you are honest
with him.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes to going to Jesus too, God will work out the details if you are honest
with him.
Kelly

This is a common arguments from the christians. "If you trust Him so..." If you put the life in His hands so..." "Only if you believe in him from the bottom of your heart so..." The story of Jesus walking of water, and one of his buddies tried it to, but sank because his lack of faith.

When I was a young boy, my favourite hero was Superman. I was very impressed by his ability to fly. Often I try to fly too, but I never lifted off the ground.
I thought that if I belived in my ability to fly enough, then even I could fly, exactly like Superman. With my right hand pointing to the sky I jumped up in the air, and always fell down. I didn't believe enough obviously. I understood, that I was only trying when I had something soft to land on if I failed.
One day I put everything on stake. I try to fly from the roof, with a concrete pavement 10 meters below. Now I could easly prove that I believed in my ability to fly by jumping up into the air, and then I could really fly! I suppressed every shred of a thought me lying on the pavement below in a bloody pool with every bone in my body crushed.
Well, I'm sitting here now, quite healthy with no scars form my childhood surgery. I didn't jump.

I was brought up by my religious parents. No wonder where I got the 'believe it and you can it' type of ideas. I asked God for signs, and got no answers. People told me that I didn't have 100% faith on him, therefore I didn't get any answers. Prayers got never any results.

At 18 yeras of age I tied the opposite. If I deny God, then my life would be worse, and that could in itself be an answer if there really was a god. Nothing happened. I got good grades in school, I got a lovely girlfriend, everything went smooth. So my conclusion wnet that I'm free from religion. And I was free to think for myself. I didn't have to believe what any of the preasts told me. Threats from Satan or God became no meaning for me. I became free!

Always when I hear "If you just have faith in God, then..." and similar advices, I just smile. Okay, you believe that, if that makes you feel good, and sleep well. Please do.

But I think about Superman, and all hard fallings I got. At that time I was a young boy with a young boy's mind.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
This is a common arguments from the christians. "If you trust Him so..." If you put the life in His hands so..." "Only if you believe in him from the bottom of your heart so..." The story of Jesus walking of water, and one of his buddies tried it to, but sank because his lack of faith.

When I was a young boy, my favourite hero was Superman. I was very ...[text shortened]... ll hard fallings I got. At that time I was a young boy with a young boy's mind.

Yes, I had similar experiences to you growing up. Very similar.
I still sympathize with parts of Kelly's arguement(s), but like you, I see gaping holes in christian philosophy.
Can I ask you please, Fabian, do you think some parts of the bible are true?
Becasue obviously christianity has caused a big "stir" in our history that continues to inspire people to this day. It makes me think that some of it may be true but , at the end of the day, I cannot take a literal interpretation of the bible seriously.. regardless of how many people it inspires.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Can I ask you please, Fabian, do you think some parts of the bible are true?
Becasue obviously christianity has caused a big "stir" in our history that continues to inspire people to this day. It makes me think that some of it may be true but , at the end of the day, I cannot take a literal interpretation of the bible seriously.. regardless of how many people it inspires.

Neither I can see the texts in the bible as literal. but I can see a treasure of knowledge of how people saw things in that culture at that time. The bible is written by men (and women) for a reason. This reason differs from part to part. It can be for political reasons, as rules how to live, anekdotes and fables to be told at the campfires, general philosophy, and stories from twisted minds in hallucination or otherwise. And of course how in different times how god is understood to be.

But the bible is not written by god, not even as an inspiration of god, perhaps by people who only thought they was inspired by god. It is not a book of science, nor of self evident truths. Every part is to be understood as words from those times and what was known at that times.

I am surprised that people still believes blindly in Adam and Eve, the flooding, the miracles and prophecies, and other supernational things, as they were writen literary. We live at the 21th century, and some still believs in the dogmas thousands of years old. I cannot really understand that.

But if it doesn't hurt anyone, I let them believe anything spiritually written in the bible. As long they let me believe in what I find to be a better Truth. If they think I am supid, then I don't have any bad sleep over thinking they are stupid.

So, bottom line, the book is interesting if you only disregard the spiritual stuff in it.

(In my humble opinion.)

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Neither I can see the texts in the bible as literal. but I can see a treasure of knowledge of how people saw things in that culture at that time. The bible is written by men (and women) for a reason. This reason differs from part to part. It can be for political reasons, as rules how to live, anekdotes and fables to be told at the campfires, general philo ...[text shortened]... ook is interesting if you only disregard the spiritual stuff in it.

(In my humble opinion.)

Yes, thank you, I asked you specifically because you bring a very scientific, conservative air to this forum.
Still, the fact that you visit this forum shows that you are not closed minded, even if you mostly disagree with the theists here.
I think it is hard to put forward stuff about spirituality, becasue it is such a contentious issue, but as I mentioned earlier, it has obviously caused a stir amongst the population.

I see religon/spirituality as more of an exploration (and maturing) of human psycology than "controlling force" that is has been in the past.
Bhuddism exemplifies this. Whether you follow one form or another matters not in the context of human psycology. The more we learn about our brains , and the resulting influences of our brains on our lives, we do and say a lot of silly things. But it is important for people to come and say silly things. Some have turned out to be true. And once we have an idea, the whole rest of the population can pick up on it very easily. (One mind?) If not one mind, than a lot of minds that all have the potential to act "as one".

Anyway, I'm having a "stupid head" day today, so will just reinforce one of my main points, and that is that "spirituality" has the power to unify our race which will lead to a future that no one can predict. (Well, the christian God can predict it. but he's not going to tell us, so it doesn't matter anyway)

And when I say unify, i mean on the inside. On the outside the more variety, the better. I think I would puke on the spot if the whole world turned into clean-cut, well dressed Jehovas Witnesses🙂