Originally posted by twhiteheadYes,yes...well thats a tricky one.
Because I am assuming for the sake of understanding the position of others that such an entity exists.
The simple fact is you are god and there is no other entity except yourself in another dimension.
I was going to say "higher self" but blah,blah...
This is the domain of experience and not logical thinking or talking.
The bhudda is said to make some "utterances" about these higher dimensions. The zen masters often come across like unintelligent oafs with not much to really say.
I guess only poetry and art can point the way.
Mind you the development of your linear thinking is integral to this"transformation". Then we are told to junk it. It is "funny" and educational from a higher dimension, but for us ground workers, the humour easily escapes us as we take out the trash and feed the cat.
It is always a matter of choice. There is no hell or anything to fear.
And yet, I know of at least to very intelligent people who to this day are still recovering catholics (aged 46 and 54) who have been on the spiritual path for well over a decade. Perhaps two. And yet the ,somewhere deep down, they still have doubt.
Even though they know god is love. "He" is like a parent with his arms out (metaphor), and it is upto us to come into "his" arms.
Satori is never luke warm. The successful adept will generate a lot of heat and perspire prefusely at that moment.
But you will know when you look into their eyes whether they are shytsters or the real deal. You will know.
Oh, and one more thing-it is not a race.
Originally posted by RJHindsIts easy to insult someone. Its much harder to back up the insult and show that it is factual. Call me arrogant or a fool if you like, but I maintain I am neither.
I think an atheist is very arrogant to say, "There is no God".
The Holy Bible puts it more harshly - "A fool says in his heart,
there is no God.
As for theists, I think they are delusional - but that is not intended as an insult but merely a descriptive word for someone who believes something that isn't true - despite the evidence to the contrary.
Originally posted by twhiteheadSo you must see that if you can call someone delusional and say it is nothing but
Its easy to insult someone. Its much harder to back up the insult and show that it is factual. Call me arrogant or a fool if you like, but I maintain I am neither.
As for theists, I think they are delusional - but that is not intended as an insult but merely a descriptive word for someone who believes something that isn't true - despite the evidence to the contrary.o
a descriptive term the same can be said of 'fool' too, since that too is nothing but
a desciptive term as well with respect to that one point.
Kelly
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Originally posted by KellyJayYes, it could be a descriptive term. But can you back it up by showing that an atheist is a fool? If not, can you show that you truly believe it is an accurate description (even though you cannot prove it)? If not, then it is merely intended as an insult.
So you must see that if you can call someone delusional and say it is nothing but
a descriptive term the same can be said of 'fool' too, since that too is nothing but
a desciptive term as well with respect to that one point.
Kelly
RJHinds calls me 'arrogant'. In what way am I arrogant? Can you or he explain further? If it is just left hanging, then I simply take it that it was intended as an insult rather than a genuine criticism of my position.
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For example, I believe many humans are arrogant when they assume that humans enjoy a special place in the universe and are unique in their intelligence etc. I call them arrogant because:
1. I do not believe there is sufficient evidence that there are no intelligent aliens to rule that possibility out.
2. I so not believe that high intelligence equates to 'special'.
3. I so not believe that animals are as unintelligent as many people make them out to be.
Originally posted by vishvahetuSo your answer to those questions is.......?
O course your false truth that there is no God has nothing to offer, but the reality is........ that God is the Supreme designer and creator, and this has much to offer, especially when you can come to understand the continuance of existence, in either the spiritual world or material world.
Your original post was about atheism. I really didn't mean to insult you.
I hope you are not really an atheist. I was merely hoping to bring you
back to reality. Most people are really agnostic. We can't prove beyond
a doubt that there is a God or not. We can only believe or disbelive in
the existance of God. You are right not to believe in religious leaders for
they are only human and make mistakes. They convince some by false
teachings. Just as religious teachers have been wrong, scientist have
also been wrong. Remember, they are only human. Although, I can not
prove there is a God, I believe there is a creator of this universe we live in.
I have a hard time believing that the universe created itself and us.
To me the Holy Bible gives the best explanation. There are many things
that seem like contradictions in the Bible; but on further study prove
otherwise. To me the Holy Bible is like the ultimate chess puzzle.
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Originally posted by RJHindsA lot of people are confused about what agnosticism and atheism is.
Your original post was about atheism. I really didn't mean to insult you.
I hope you are not really an atheist. I was merely hoping to bring you
back to reality. Most people are really agnostic. We can't prove beyond
a doubt that there is a God or not. We can only believe or disbelive in
the existance of God. You are right not to believe in religious ...[text shortened]... ut on further study prove
otherwise. To me the Holy Bible is like the ultimate chess puzzle.
Most people think that you either have theist, agnostic and atheist. It is actually more granular than this. A more precise categorisation can be outlined below.
Theist - Someone who believes there is *definitely* a deity.
Agnostic Theist - Someone who believes in a deity, but not 100% sure.
Agnostic Atheist - Someone who doesn't believe in a deity, but not 100% sure.
Atheist - Someone who believes there is *definitely* no deity.
Usually people think that agnostic is the exact midway point where there is just as likely to be a deity or not. Although this is possible, I would say that this person has not thought about it enough to come to a conclusion either way (e.g. an implicit atheist).
What people's beliefs are is best dealt with on a case by case basis as an objective viewpoint will be to look at the evidence, and deciding what has the best probability of being correct.
You are assuming that the atheist position is that there is *definitely* no God, when it could be that this person concludes there is very unlikely a God (i.e. an agnostic atheist).
It does, of course, get much more granular than these categories. Like an agnostic atheist will range from a 50% probability of there being no deity to just short of 100%.
Same way that you cannot prove there are no unicorns, but can sensibly conclude that the probability of unicorns existing is extremely small. Therefore can safely say, "There are no unicorns".
You also need to determine if the person beliefs in a deity, but not of the known religions. When someone asks, "Do you believe in God?", they are usually asking, "Do you believe in the God that I believe in?"
Originally posted by RJHindsWell if it was not intended as an insult, you should be able to explain why you think it is justified. So far you haven't done a very good job. I must also point out that insulting people (or appearing to do so) does not generally 'bring them back to reality'.
Your original post was about atheism. I really didn't mean to insult you.
I hope you are not really an atheist. I was merely hoping to bring you
back to reality.
Most people are really agnostic. We can't prove beyond
a doubt that there is a God or not.
And we can't prove beyond a doubt that there is no spaghetti monster, but I doubt that you consider yourself agnostic on the matter.
Although, I can not prove there is a God, I believe there is a creator of this universe we live in.
I have a hard time believing that the universe created itself and us.
That is all well and good, but that doesn't make others who have different opinions 'arrogant' or 'fools'.
To me the Holy Bible gives the best explanation. There are many things
that seem like contradictions in the Bible; but on further study prove
otherwise. To me the Holy Bible is like the ultimate chess puzzle.
And to me the Bible is a collection of ancient religious books. But again, that doesn't make me 'arrogant' or a 'fool'. I have good reasons for my beliefs as I am sure you have for yours.
I absolutely did not call you a fool. I apologize if you took it that way.
On that matter, I was trying to quote the Holy Bible, if I remember it right.
You seem to have been conviced somehow that God apsolutely does not
exist. I thought I could convince you that you were not sure deep down in your heart. I hope I have not made an enemy buy my words. I wish to be your
friend, but I can not deny my belief in God. I hope there is a God like the one
in the Holy Bible. A God of justice and love, especially love.
With Love,
RJHinds
Originally posted by RJHinds“....You seem to have been conviced somehow that God apsolutely does not exist. ...”
I absolutely did not call you a fool. I apologize if you took it that way.
On that matter, I was trying to quote the Holy Bible, if I remember it right.
You seem to have been conviced somehow that God apsolutely does not
exist. I thought I could convince you that you were not sure deep down in your heart. I hope I have not made an enemy buy my words. ...[text shortened]... ke the one
in the Holy Bible. A God of justice and love, especially love.
With Love,
RJHinds
have you “been convinced somehow that” the spaghetti monster “absolutely does not exist”?
-the point I make here is that you make it sound like a disbelief in the existence of something supernatural with no bases/evidence to support its existence is an incredible disbelief -which it is not.
“....I thought I could convince you that you were not sure deep down in your heart....”
how would you 'know' that he is, in some sense, “not sure”? I am absolutely sure there is no god for the same reason why I am sure there is no spaghetti monster -and that includes “ deep down in my heart”.
it is an appalling and common delusion of some theists that everybody “knows” that there is a 'god'.
Originally posted by RJHindsSo what purpose did quoting the Bible serve if you did not intend to pass on the message it has?
I absolutely did not call you a fool. I apologize if you took it that way.
On that matter, I was trying to quote the Holy Bible, if I remember it right.
You seem to have been conviced somehow that God apsolutely does not
exist.
Correct.
I thought I could convince you that you were not sure deep down in your heart.
Well you took an odd way of going about it.
I hope I have not made an enemy buy my words.
No you have not. You have been perfectly civil since that first post.
I wish to be your friend, but I can not deny my belief in God.
I would not ask you too. I may wish to convince you that your belief is unfounded, but I would not ever ask you do deny a belief you honestly hold.
I hope there is a God like the one in the Holy Bible. A God of justice and love, especially love.
And I do not believe the God portrayed in the Bible is a God of justice or love. But thats another discussion for another time.
Originally posted by RJHindsIt is arrogant think that you are so important or special as to attract the interests of a god and to think the Earth and the entire universe was all created by a god for our benefit and to think that your mind/consciousness is immortal.
I think an atheist is very arrogant to say, "There is no God".
The Holy Bible puts it more harshly - "A fool says in his heart,
there is no God.
It is certainly not arrogant to think that the above is false and you evolved from some hairy ape-like primates and one day you will die and cease to be anything but dust.
...it is only theism that is arrogant here.
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Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonIf there is no God then it is still arrogant to think we came from apes.
It is arrogant think that you are so important or special as to attract the interests of a god and to think the Earth and the entire universe was all created by a god for our benefit and to think that your mind/consciousness is immortal.
It is certainly not arrogant to think that the above is false and you evolved from some hairy ape-like primates a ...[text shortened]... day you will die and cease to be anything but dust.
...it is only theism that is arrogant here.
The Bible says you are a fool for not believing in God. You are stereotyping the word fool if you say you are not one.