Atheist Comment Ends Badly for Indonesia Man

Originally posted by karoly aczel
no. I am not saying that at all. I'm saying this guy is being forced to choose one of six religions after he's professed he doesn't believe in god, so whatever choice he makes is just going to be rather silly and funny in a way, dont you think?

It's certainly silly... I wouldn't say it was particularly funny...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
no. I am not saying that at all. I'm saying this guy is being forced to choose one of six religions after he's professed he doesn't believe in god, so whatever choice he makes is just going to be rather silly and funny in a way, dont you think?

You said "if it were one it would make more sense". How would it "make more sense" to the millions and millions of people here who are not Muslims?

Originally posted by googlefudge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6


There things that people can do in rich, safe, secular, western societies that can have
effects on those who don't.

We can join campaigns with organisations like 'amnesty international' or
'Atheist Alliance International' and effect our foreign policy both directly via campaigning or
via everyone who
did as he did throughout history which won us the freedoms we have today.

But calling what he did 'misplaced bravery' is both wrong and an insult to him, and everyone who
did as he did throughout history which won us the freedoms we have today.
I disagree...I'd prefer he didn't get the sh** kicked out of him and silently carried on failing to believe in gods so long as it was dangerous to do so loudly. Yes people have certainly given their lives throughout history to make a stand on some issue or other and I can certainly acknowledge they were brave. Indeed I can go further to say I'm very grateful to some of them for being able to reap the benefits of their ideals (unrealised whilst they were still alive to fight for them), but they don't care for my gratitude - they don't bask in posthumous praise, they are dead (and often the manner in which they met their end was too horrific to think about deeply).
I don't fawn over so called valour, chivalry, or bravery - I would never teach others the so called virtue of dying for your beliefs -I'll risk putting my neck on the line only if I'll certainly come off worse if I didn't - and certainly not for some reward neither I, my family, nor my close friends will live long enough to enjoy. - indeed to hijack a well known saying:

I disagree with what you say, and what's more I will never defend to the death your right to say it

Originally posted by FMF
You said "if it were one it would make more sense". How would it "make more sense" to the millions and millions of people here who are not Muslims?

I believe thats already been pointed out by gogglefudge,I think.

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]But calling what he did 'misplaced bravery' is both wrong and an insult to him, and everyone who
did as he did throughout history which won us the freedoms we have today.
I disagree...I'd prefer he didn't get the sh** kicked out of him and silently carried on failing to believe in gods so long as it was dangerous to do so loudly. Yes people have cert ...[text shortened]... t you say, and what's more I will never defend to the death your right to say it[/i][/b]

"I want you to remember that no b*****d ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor, dumb b*****d die for his country."
George C. Scott in 'Patton'.

I don't believe in dying for a cause either... However some people will always land up
dying for a cause who never intended to do so.

I believe in fighting (non-violently where possible) for your beliefs and freedoms.
I don't believe in dying for them.

However it has to be said that people dying for a cause, whether they intended to or not,
is frequently the greatest recruiter and motivator for those that come after and win the
battle that that earlier person died for.

Which is one reason I argue that terrorists should be treated like the criminals they are,
and get a fair trial, followed by life in prison (with extremely limited and moderated outside
contact to prevent them running terror cells from inside prison).
I don't think creating martyrs is a good idea.

There is a truism that if you have 200 protesters, and you round them all up and shoot them, then
you don't now have 0 protesters, you don't have 200 protesters... you have something like 2000...

Originally posted by FMF
‘God Does Not Exist’ Comment Ends Badly for Indonesia Man

An Indonesian civil servant who posted “God does not exist” on his Facebook page has been taken into police custody for his own protection after he was badly beaten.

The man, identified as Alexander, 31, now faces the prospect of losing his job, or even being jailed, if he fails to repent and accept ...[text shortened]... tp://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/god-does-not-exist-comment-ends-badly-for-indonesia-man/492370

This man as do all men - has the right to claim God does not exists.

But no man has the right to teach the children that God does not exist.

The reprisal the man received was un-called for.

People can have the right to believe anything.........and they do.

However they have no right to teach false spirituality/religion/science to society - which can cause the receiver to mis-use his entire life.

Originally posted by Dasa
But no man has the right to teach the children that God does not exist.

And just how do you propose to intervene in how parents raise their children, Dasa?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I believe thats already been pointed out by gogglefudge,I think.

Oh well. No need to answer if you don't want to, karoly.

Originally posted by googlefudge
"I want you to remember that no b*****d ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor, dumb b*****d die for his country."
George C. Scott in 'Patton'.

I don't believe in dying for a cause either... However some people will always land up
dying for a cause who never intended to do so.

I believe in fighting (non-vio now have 0 protesters, you don't have 200 protesters... you have something like 2000...

I don't see any need for a fair trail for the terrorist, but if it don't delay
the hanging too long, I'll agree with that. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't see any need for a fair trail for the terrorist, but if it don't delay
the hanging too long, I'll agree with that. 😏

Nobody featured in the OP can be seriously described as a "terrorist".

Originally posted by FMF
Nobody featured in the OP can be seriously described as a "terrorist".

Muslims don't need to be described as "terrorists". Their actions speak
louder than their words. 😏

Originally posted by FMF
Oh well. No need to answer if you don't want to, karoly.

It was answered by gogglefudge. It is stupid for those of other faiths to support a blasphemy law that makes it illegal to be atheist and say you don't believe in the God of Islam but legal to be a member of another religion (which by default means you don't believe in the God of Islam.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Muslims don't need to be described as "terrorists". Their actions speak
louder than their words. 😏

Terrorists are terrorists, regardless of their cause. It is a technique. No one in the OP is a "terrorist".

Originally posted by twhitehead
It was answered by gogglefudge. It is stupid for those of other faiths to support a blasphemy law that makes it illegal to be atheist and say you don't believe in the God of Islam but legal to be a member of another religion (which by default means you don't believe in the God of Islam.

Well hardly any "Christians", "Catholics", "Hindus" or "Buddhists" here support a blasphemy law. I've never met one in 20 years, even among those who feel provoked by the kind of bigoted Muslim thugs that are featured in the OP. You've got a public official mouthing off to a journalist and enjoying his 15 minutes in the spotlight. There will be no prosecution under the "blasphemy law". The Muslim thugs that beat up their colleague in workplace will probably agree with karoly, that it would make more sense for there to be just one religion. Theirs. Meanwhile most Indonesian monotheists perceive they are all worshipping the same 'one' God, by way of different traditions.

Originally posted by FMF
Well hardly any "Christians", "Catholics", "Hindus" or "Buddhists" here support a blasphemy law. I've never met one in 20 years, even among those who feel provoked by the kind of bigoted Muslim thugs that are featured in the OP. You've got a public official mouthing off to a journalist and enjoying his 15 minutes in the spotlight. There will be no prosecution un ...[text shortened]... ceive they are all worshipping the same 'one' God, by way of different traditions.

Meanwhile most Indonesian monotheists perceive they are all worshipping the same 'one' God, by way of different traditions.

That is where they go wrong. Different tradition equals different God.

😏