Baptism

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Just what did you admit to, Mr. Dingleberry Hunter? I wasn't debating whether or not the UMC is right or wrong. I am simply stating that you are a rude, crass, malevolent individual who must have had no proper home training...over, and over, and over...on thread, after thread, after thread....

well Pink in the Middle.Rude, crass, malevolent individual who must have had no proper home training on an interenet website? how dare I? I will change immediately. If you were to meet me in person you would find me to be a nice, classy, outstanding induvidual... right before I hit you upside the head with an aluminun baseball bat😛

Originally posted by epic0002
well Pink in the Middle.Rude, crass, malevolent individual who must have had no proper home training on an interenet website? how dare I? I will change immediately. If you were to meet me in person you would find me to be a nice, classy, outstanding induvidual... right before I hit you upside the head with an aluminun baseball bat😛

I accept your apology. I'm your Huckleberry, Mary.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
I accept your apology. I'm your Huckleberry, Mary.

Finn, or Hound?

Anyway, would it be possible to drag this thread back on-topic? As someone raised in a large Baptist church, and who was baptised relatively recently, I would tend to agree with RBHill that child baptism is often for the parents (although it is much more compliated that just that 😛). Personally, i feel that it is best left until the person can make their own decision about following Christ. However, I also believe that baptism is not necessary to enter heaven - which really leaves me in a bit of a muddle when discussing the topic with my girlfriend, someone who supports child over adult baptism...😛

What are the arguments for child baptism?

Originally posted by genius
Finn, or Hound?

Anyway, would it be possible to drag this thread back on-topic? As someone raised in a large Baptist church, and who was baptised relatively recently, I would tend to agree with RBHill that child baptism is often for the parents (although it is much more compliated that just that 😛). Personally, i feel that it is best left until the person ...[text shortened]... e who supports child over adult baptism...😛

What are the arguments for child baptism?

I was raised in the Baptist church and was baptized as a child for the outward sign of receiving christ.. I was wrong. I was then Baptized as a Christian for the remission of sins years later when I could understand the Bible.

1. baptism is needed to be saved. If people think all they have to do is believe then read James 2:19,20. Even the devels believe... and faith without works is dead...

2. the requirements or prerequisites Salvation are to hear the word,understand it enough to believe what it says and develope a faith,repent of your sins, confess that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and be baptized FOR the remission of sin Mk1:4. like I said I dont see my baby doing all that just yet.

if you want all the chapter/verses for the steps to salvation above Ill put them on here.

Originally posted by epic0002
I was raised in the Baptist church and was baptized as a child for the outward sign of receiving christ.. I was wrong. I was then Baptized as a Christian for the remission of sins years later when I could understand the Bible.

1. baptism is needed to be saved. If people think all they have to do is believe then read James 2:19,20. Even the devels believe ...[text shortened]... et.

if you want all the chapter/verses for the steps to salvation above Ill put them on here.

wow, really? I guess until the baptist and modern evangelicals came around, then millions and millions of christians over century's all perished in the flames of hell. hmmpf!who knew?!

Originally posted by epic0002
I was raised in the Baptist church and was baptized as a child for the outward sign of receiving christ.. I was wrong. I was then Baptized as a Christian for the remission of sins years later when I could understand the Bible.

1. baptism is needed to be saved. If people think all they have to do is believe then read James 2:19,20. Even the devels believe ...[text shortened]... et.

if you want all the chapter/verses for the steps to salvation above Ill put them on here.

So, what Christ accomplished on the cross is not sufficient for the forgiveness of sins?

Originally posted by musicismyworld
I am a Christian and we believe when you get baptised you are showing the public you are showing you wan to live for the Lord ,and you are biblically responisle of keeping the faith.

I don't believe you MUST be baptised to be saved, but I balieve it is a very god idea 😀

Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16). It seems very clear that we must be baptized in order to be saved.

The act of baptism is something that one must look to the New Testament to figure out the purpose of it, and when one should be baptized. There is a common practice among denominations that “baptize” babies when they are very young. Some call it “christening,” some call it “baptism” whether they use sprinkling, pouring, or immersion. However, the Bible teaches only one mode of baptism, and it also teaches us the purpose of it, and when one should be baptized.

The purpose of baptism is set forth so clearly in the New Testament. It is “for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38). Baptism places one “into Christ” (Gal. 3:27). Baptism “washes away sins” (Acts 22:16). Baptism “does also now save us” (I Pet. 3:20-21). Therefore, if baptism washes away sins, and is for the remission of sins, and saves us from our sins, then obviously one must have sin in order to be scripturally baptized. However, a baby, or even a young child does not have sin. They are not full of sin, and lost; they are not saved either; they are safe. For one to commit sin, he must know the difference between right and wrong. Sin is the transgression (overstepping) of God’s law (I John 3:4). Therefore, there is something that we call the “age of accountability.” Children are not accountable. The mentally challenged are not accountable for their actions. They don’t know the difference between what is good and what is evil. Isa. 7:16 speaks of a time “…before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good…”

I say all this to come to this point: if you were baptized as a child, did you know what you were doing? How old were you? Did you know what the difference between right and wrong was? Did you know that this baptism placed you into the church that Jesus built (I Cor. 12:13)? Did you know that you had sinned [if accountable], and this is why you were being baptized? Maybe you did, I don’t know; only you can answer these questions. However, if you have any doubt, I would strongly urge you to be baptized scripturally. For, if you did not know these things when you were a child at your baptism, then you really just got wet. Contemplate on it, and I’m confident that you will make the right choice. You just need to do what is best for your spiritual life, and what is going to get you in a right relationship with God.

Originally posted by Treytrumpet1
Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16). It seems very clear that we must be baptized in order to be saved.

Examine Mark 16:16 again....

"...he that believeth not shall be damned."

It is interesting to note that the only distinction which Christ gives the damned is that they "believeth not." Why is it that He did not mention that neither were they baptized? Simple. Because salvation hinges on faith in Jesus Christ, and baptism is only the outward sign of the previously occurring inward cleansing of Christ's blood through faith.

Be careful not to add anything to the finished work Christ accomplished on the cross. Those of genuine faith do not work for Christ in order to be saved, rather those of genuine faith work for Christ because they love Him. If you are adding works to the finished work which Christ accomplished on the cross, you have either never been truly saved, or you have fallen from grace: "For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace" (Galatians 5:4).

Grace = UNMERITED favor. 😀

Originally posted by epic0002
I was raised in the Baptist church and was baptized as a child for the outward sign of receiving christ.. I was wrong. I was then Baptized as a Christian for the remission of sins years later when I could understand the Bible.

1. baptism is needed to be saved. If people think all they have to do is believe then read James 2:19,20. Even the devels believe ...[text shortened]... et.

if you want all the chapter/verses for the steps to salvation above Ill put them on here.

Not necessary. The "requirements" happens to be only one verse:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus as your Savior." All the rest is window
dressing. Your belief about infant baptism, however, is well-founded and many fine Christian people feel the same way. Most of them had better home training in their formative years than your parents gave you; nevertheless, not a bad explanation of belief.

Originally posted by Treytrumpet1
The act of baptism is something that one must look to the New Testament to figure out the purpose of it, and when one should be baptized. There is a common practice among denominations that “baptize” babies when they are very young. Some call it “christening,” some call it “baptism” whether they use sprinkling, pouring, or immersion. However, the Bib ...[text shortened]... is best for your spiritual life, and what is going to get you in a right relationship with God.

So what about the man who sincerely repents of his sins, places his faith in and receives Jesus Christ as Savior, and is struck by a car and dies while crossing the street to get baptized in the local church? Is that man saved?

Please do not dodge this question. He is either saved or he isn't. Tell me, which is it?

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Examine Mark 16:16 again....

"...he that believeth not shall be damned."

It is interesting to note that the only distinction which Christ gives the damned is that they "believeth not." Why is it that He did not mention that neither were they baptized?

Your answer to the question why would Jesus not say "He that believeth not and is baptized not shall be damned" was because of salvation comes by faith. However, I submit to you that the first part of this verse refutes that: Jesus clearly said, "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved." Now, did Jesus really have to say, "He that believeth not and is baptized not, shall be damned?" If one does not believe, he will certainly not be baptized! Let me put forth a parallel analogy. "He that eateth food and digesteth food shall live; but he that eateth not shall not live." You see, I don't have to go on and say, "He that eateth not and digesteth not shall not live," because if you don't eat, you surely won't be digesting.

Let me simply submit one passage to you: “But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him” (Luke 7:30). CAN ONE REJECT THE COUNSEL OF GOD AND BE SAVED? I would like an answer on this last question please.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
So what about the man who sincerely repents of his sins, places his faith in and receives Jesus Christ as Savior, and is struck by a car and dies while crossing the street to get baptized in the local church? Is that man saved?

Please do not dodge this question. He is either saved or he isn't. Tell me, which is it?

Are you serious? I actually have the power to say who is saved and who is not? It is been established by baptism and non baptism people alike that it is not the physical act of being dunked under water..but doing the commandments of God. I wont dodge that question... Ill tell you straight, I would be scared to answer it.

Originally posted by Treytrumpet1
Your answer to the question why would Jesus not say "He that believeth not and is baptized not shall be damned" was because of salvation comes by faith. However, I submit to you that the first part of this verse refutes that: Jesus clearly said, "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved." Now, did Jesus really have to say, "He that believeth COUNSEL OF GOD AND BE SAVED? I would like an answer on this last question please.

First of all, you are talking to a person who has been baptized. I am not arguing against baptism. Of course, if I have believed in Jesus Christ, I will naturally want to obey Him out of love and devotion. Baptism is necessary from the standpoint of someone who believes in and follows Jesus Christ. No question. But I did not get baptized in order to be saved, on the contrary, I got baptized because I was saved. Like faith and good works, faith and baptism go hand in hand. However, it is an error to claim that it is baptism itself which saves me. If baptism saves, I could very well get myself baptized whether I believed in Jesus Christ or not. Will that save me? No, of course not. We are saved by grace through faith, not by works alone.

"CAN ONE REJECT THE COUNSEL OF GOD AND BE SAVED? I would like an answer on this last question please."

Fair enough. I will answer your question as soon as you answer the question I posed to you.

Originally posted by epic0002
Are you serious? I actually have the power to say who is saved and who is not? It is been established by baptism and non baptism people alike that it is not the physical act of being dunked under water..but doing the commandments of God. I wont dodge that question... Ill tell you straight, I would be scared to answer it.

Do you know what would scare me? Having to rely on my own ability to acceptably perform the commandments of God in order to be saved.

Your supposed fear of answering the question I have posed to you does not impress me. As a Christian, should you not be able to competently tell someone exactly how they can be saved?

And if you're not sure whether you are saved or not, how can you obey God's command to rejoice? We are commanded to rejoice due to our being written in the Book of Life!

Do you trust God's grace is sufficient for you? If not, you are a double-minded man.

"But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways" (James 1:6-8).