Bhagavad Gita Cht 5 vs22.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Why not be a Christian and enjoy the temporary life here and also an
eternal life to come?

I enjoy the hell out of life as it stands here and now. As for your hypothetical afterlife, Que Sara, Sara. If it happens, I never murdered anyone, don't have the slightest interest in believing in your concept of original sin, I raised 8 kids, have 20 grandkids, am still working, plan to be doing so for the next 20 years. In short I don't think many people have lived anything like the life I have, seen the things I have so all in all I can't complain and have no need to be fearful of whatever demons you seem to see all around you. I live in the here and now and think what you see is what you get.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I don't believe you.

[b]If you are not interested in realizing the Truth,perfectly all right.
And I object to you misusing the word 'Truth' to mean 'escapism'. Or is the capitalization of the word your attempt at trademarking the name?[/b]

I thought as an atheist, your goal could be to find out what is the Ultimate Reality. This word, I am using as synonymous with truth with a capital T. Truth. Every human's property. Not copyrighted by anyone, let alone rvsakhadeo.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
To be liberated or free from the Sansar-chakra ( the wheel of the world ) is my goal. It is an extremely difficult goal. The path is long and painful as if it is a razor's edge as described by God of Death to Nachiketa.

And I am interested in knowing why it is your goal. So far the best answer you have given is that you think it is everyone's goal so you just go with the flow.
I also find it interesting that someone who doesn't want to deal with the vicissitudes of life chooses what they know is a long and painful path.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I enjoy the hell out of life as it stands here and now. As for your hypothetical afterlife, Que Sara, Sara. If it happens, I never murdered anyone, don't have the slightest interest in believing in your concept of original sin, I raised 8 kids, have 20 grandkids, am still working, plan to be doing so for the next 20 years. In short I don't think many people ...[text shortened]... eem to see all around you. I live in the here and now and think what you see is what you get.

What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?

Originally posted by FMF
Well you have side-stepped my question. What is it you think is wrong with the vicissitudes of life?

You may ask that yourself, especially when you are past age of 60. I am 65. I guess that you are not anywhere near 60. The ups and downs of life get to be quite tiresome and painful after 60. Joy and sadness follow each other in rapid succession and one starts to get that distinct feeling that soon, one will have to leave the stage. It is best to square up one's accounts at an early date and start on this path.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
You may ask that yourself, especially when you are past age of 60. I am 65. I guess that you are not anywhere near 60. The ups and downs of life get to be quite tiresome and painful after 60. Joy and sadness follow each other in rapid succession and one starts to get that distinct feeling that soon, one will have to leave the stage. It is best to square up one's accounts at an early date and start on this path.

So you have difficulty coping with life because you define yourself as old. What makes you think you can extrapolate a spiritual message for me or anyone else out of that? As I get older I should turn to Indian folk tales to numb my feelings or ponder the afterlife because it makes me feel less sad? And then you refer to all this as Truth with a capital T?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
You may ask that yourself, especially when you are past age of 60. I am 65. I guess that you are not anywhere near 60. The ups and downs of life get to be quite tiresome and painful after 60. Joy and sadness follow each other in rapid succession and one starts to get that distinct feeling that soon, one will have to leave the stage. It is best to square up one's accounts at an early date and start on this path.

So fear of death is the real 'vicissitude' that you wish to avoid?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So fear of death is the real 'vicissitude' that you wish to avoid?

Firstly, it is not the fear of death as such. More, it is the mode of death that one fears. I would not like to suffer from a painful death e.g.from cancer. Even a heart attack can be painful. Prolonged illness is also bad. I would like to die in peace e.g.when asleep. One canot pick and choose,obviously. This lack of choice gets one down. But even more serious is the finality of death. The end. Was that all that I, rvsakhadeo, could harvest out of life ? When one looks back, questions like this start haunting one. Did I hurt some person/s by my words/actions ?Yes, I did. What can I do now to repair the damage, if at all I can ? Did I do anything worthwhile at all, as a human, as an Indian, as a Hindu, as an Engineer, as a husband, as a son ? These questions may receive positive answers but not completely and not to all. Metaphysical questions are even more difficult at this stage of life. One makes the best of the situation as one can. Luckily, I am born into a culture and a religion that has, I believe, answers. So I am on that path.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
I would like to die in peace e.g.when asleep. One canot pick and choose,obviously.

Actually, one can pick - though usually at the cost of shortening ones life.

Luckily, I am born into a culture and a religion that has, I believe, answers. So I am on that path.
But from what I can tell, it doesn't provide answers to your questions, but instead helps you avoid dealing with the answers. I have no problem with that per se, but when you label it "Truth" or assume that everyone else wants the same thing, I tend to object.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually, one can pick - though usually at the cost of shortening ones life.

[b]Luckily, I am born into a culture and a religion that has, I believe, answers. So I am on that path.
But from what I can tell, it doesn't provide answers to your questions, but instead helps you avoid dealing with the answers. I have no problem with that per se, but when you label it "Truth" or assume that everyone else wants the same thing, I tend to object.[/b]

My only assumption was that many of us want a relief from ups and downs of life. It was not an unreasonable assumption to make.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?

That's all well and good if there was a soul. I think humans think too highly of themselves to think there is ANY reason for the universe to need any essence of us after we die. It's all a big lie to propagate the christian faith. No soul=no need for christianity.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
My only assumption was that many of us want a relief from ups and downs of life. It was not an unreasonable assumption to make.

I think it is unreasonable considering the low suicide rate.

Originally posted by twhitehead
And I am interested in knowing why it is your goal. So far the best answer you have given is that you think it is everyone's goal so you just go with the flow.
I also find it interesting that someone who doesn't want to deal with the vicissitudes of life chooses what they know is a long and painful path.

This is the only path that will release me from the cycle of birth and death and merge my soul into God. The price to be paid is definitely worth it.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
It is easier for us simple folk, if a relationship is first built with God. This will enable the devotion to take root. To treat God as lover, or mother, or father, or friend, or confidant or a master makes it easy for the devotion to take root and hence advised.
But it is simply not compulsory. An intellectual can simply think of God-- let us say as Hi ...[text shortened]... dealists have believed in Patriotism or some in the brotherhood of Man. God overarchs all ideas.

Thanks.

I waited a little while to see if others would reply.

I think people can get "stuck" in a rut that is formed when they are too young to be taking on firmly held beliefs about God and how to relate to God, whether that is God as a person, as something that is overarching, as a guiding principle, etc. This can affect those who are, or become, theists, and those who are, or become, atheists, preventing or hindering their growth.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I think it is unreasonable considering the low suicide rate.

You are wrong there. Although every person tied up in these coils or bonds of Sansar feels the ups and downs--many more downs actually--he/she does not want to let go by committing suicide.Every one--almost everyone wants to live-no matter what. Did you not read the story of the old woodcutter which I related some time back ?
An old woodcutter eked out a living by cutting trees and selling the wood. As he got old, his joints started creaking and he grew weak due to many diseases.Poverty complicated the matters. Once as he was coming back from the forest loaded with the wood,tired and thirsty, he cried out in agony" Oh God, I had enough, I wish I was relieved of this life !". The God of Death hearing the cry of the old man, appeared before him and said " All right, let us go ! ".The woodcutter on recognising the God of Death, collected his wits and said " God, you have misunderstood me ! I had got fed up of carrying this burden of wood, and not of my life. Please help me carry this burden.I do not want you to carry me to the land of the Dead."