Originally posted by rvsakhadeo Each to his/her own. If your view does not match with my view it is ok. I am not expressing any compulsive view about the desirability or otherwise of freeing oneself from the vicissitudes of life or whether one should be stoic about vicissitudes or whether one should enjoy one's vicissitudes etc.
Well you have side-stepped my question. What is it you think is wrong with the vicissitudes of life?
Originally posted by rvsakhadeo Do you expect me to simply read such aggressive words about Geeta and keep silent ?
Well it was bbar who first used the words "profoundly self-absorbed or inhuman, or autistic", not me. I just quoted him. Or was it my word "numbing" that you found "aggressive"?
Originally posted by rvsakhadeo I am not expressing any compulsive view about the desirability or otherwise of freeing oneself from the vicissitudes of life or whether one should be stoic about vicissitudes or whether one should enjoy one's vicissitudes etc.
Aren't you? Then why did you say "Freedom from the vicissitudes of life is what we want, don't we?"
Originally posted by JS357 Could you or someone familiar with the Geeta comment on the question of personhood of God? I was taught to believe in a "personal God" but there was not a lot of discussion of what that meant.
Tasa seems to be saying that without there being divine personhood, that is, without God being believed in as a person, we could not enter into a relationship with Go ...[text shortened]... ys of thinking, that, frankly, may hinder progress if they are supposed to be taken literally.
It is easier for us simple folk, if a relationship is first built with God. This will enable the devotion to take root. To treat God as lover, or mother, or father, or friend, or confidant or a master makes it easy for the devotion to take root and hence advised.
But it is simply not compulsory. An intellectual can simply think of God-- let us say as Higgs Boson---and believe in it if he wants. Or in an abstract idea like a Noumenon. Some idealists have believed in Patriotism or some in the brotherhood of Man. God overarchs all ideas.
Originally posted by rvsakhadeo Do you expect me to simply read such aggressive words about Geeta and keep silent ?
Probably not, since you clearly revere the Geeta. But by over compensating you showed your anger, and the fact that you clearly have not yet gained your freedom.
Originally posted by Rajk999 By 'we' he probably meant East Indians, not you. The average person in India lives a very hard life.
I would have thought what you appear to be alluding to is a political and economic matter rather than a spiritual matter. Middle class people, rich people, battlers, well-to-do, and poor people alike all face "the vicissitudes of life", so I think twhitehead is right to differentiate. I disagree with rvsakhadeo when he says "...most people want freedom from the vicissitudes of life". Dasa goes further than rvsakhadeo when two of the first few things he mentions about his spiritual belief system are the goals of becoming unaffected by suffering and of becoming unaffected by happiness.
Originally posted by FMF I would have thought what you appear to be alluding to is a political and economic matter rather than a spiritual matter. Middle class people, rich people, battlers, well-to-do, and poor people alike all face "the vicissitudes of life", so I think twhitehead is right to differentiate. I disagree with rvsakhadeo when he says "...most people want freedom from the m are the goals of becoming unaffected by suffering and of becoming unaffected by happiness.
Why do you twist every single thing I post up.
I have never said the goals of spiritual life are to be unaffected by happiness of suffering.
However I did say the symptoms of advancing the spiritual life are numerous including not being affected by happiness and distress.
Your are so envious of persons who are understanding spirituality that you always feel you must tear down their comments.
Originally posted by Dasa I have never said the goals of spiritual life are to be unaffected by happiness of suffering.
However I did say the symptoms of advancing the spiritual life are numerous including not being affected by happiness and distress.
Regardless of how you parse it, Dasa, I reject your self-absorbed escapism completely. To celebrate becoming unaffected by suffering and becoming unaffected by happiness amounts, to my my way of thinking, a form of self-dehumanization and a retreat from the wonder of this life we have.
Originally posted by FMF Regardless of how you parse it, Dasa, I reject your self-absorbed escapism completely. To celebrate becoming unaffected by suffering and becoming unaffected by happiness amounts, to my my way of thinking, a form of self-dehumanization and a retreat from the wonder of this life we have.
Same goes for your embrace of an aversion to sex.
In other words, Dasa/Vishavhetu, if you are the shining example of spiritual enlightenment with your obvious hang ups, I'll stick with the dishonest atheism that at least lets us enjoy the life we have here and now with its ups and downs, its sadness and joy, the wonder of looking at the stars at night, the pride of a parent seeing the children become adults, the feeling of getting up early on a spring day walking through our forest feeling the oneness of our jewel Earth. I'll take all that over your judgemental withdrawn sadness you represent.
Originally posted by twhitehead Probably not, since you clearly revere the Geeta. But by over compensating you showed your anger, and the fact that you clearly have not yet gained your freedom.
Yes, I agree I got angry. But I never claimed that I was liberated. I am a Sadhak or a student and nothing more. To be liberated or free from the Sansar-chakra ( the wheel of the world ) is my goal. It is an extremely difficult goal. The path is long and painful as if it is a razor's edge as described by God of Death to Nachiketa.
Originally posted by sonhouse In other words, Dasa/Vishavhetu, if you are the shining example of spiritual enlightenment with your obvious hang ups, I'll stick with the dishonest atheism that at least lets us enjoy the life we have here and now with its ups and downs, its sadness and joy, the wonder of looking at the stars at night, the pride of a parent seeing the children become adult ...[text shortened]... of our jewel Earth. I'll take all that over your judgemental withdrawn sadness you represent.
Why not be a Christian and enjoy the temporary life here and also an
eternal life to come?
Originally posted by rvsakhadeo Yes, I agree I got angry. But I never claimed that I was liberated. I am a Sadhak or a student and nothing more. To be liberated or free from the Sansar-chakra ( the wheel of the world ) is my goal. It is an extremely difficult goal. The path is long and painful as if it is a razor's edge as described by God of Death to Nachiketa.
As Christians, our burden is easy for we have One that has taken our pain
upon Himself.
29 Sep '11 16:32
Bhagavad Gita Cht 5 vs22.
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