Originally posted by menace71Why is it necessary for you to say that they are one and the same entity?
I agree that there are 3 personages (different) in the God head with different roles. One God and we can go around and around on this forever. I know human language will break down and there are analogies that will NOT be perfectly perfect in describing the nature of God himself. Jesus humbled himself for a temporary time (33 years) to accomplish what the ...[text shortened]... n could be our only true savior? God. Jesus is our savior no doubt. Jesus was sinless.
Manny
Why not simply repeat what the Bible has without adding to it?
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Originally posted by menace71Take the time and look up all the scriptures here and try to understand them clearly and in what they are truly saying. If you introduce mans ideas of the trinty in the mix it will not make sence to you.
The Bible says that Christ created all things. Those who teach that Christ was created must believe that Christ made Himself! The Bible says, “All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made” (John 1:3).
This I find funny LOL 🙂
Manny
This is the problem with the trinity as it mixes up what is being said by the bible.
CREATION
The act of creating, or causing the existence of, someone or something. It can also refer to that which has been created or brought into existence. The Hebrew bara" and the Greek ktizo, both meaning “create,” are used exclusively with reference to divine creation.
Throughout the Scriptures Jehovah God is identified as the Creator. He is “the Creator of the heavens, . . . the Former of the earth and the Maker of it.” (Isa 45:18) He is “the Former of the mountains and the Creator of the wind” (Am 4:13) and is “the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them.” (Ac 4:24; 14:15; 17:24) “God . . . created all things.” (Eph 3:9) Jesus Christ recognized Jehovah as the One who created humans, making them male and female. (Mt 19:4; Mr 10:6) Hence, Jehovah is fittingly and uniquely called “the Creator.”—Isa 40:28.
It is because of God’s will that all things “existed and were created.” (Re 4:11) Jehovah, who has existed for all time, was alone before creation had a beginning.—Ps 90:1, 2; 1Ti 1:17.
While Jehovah, who is a Spirit (Joh 4:24; 2Co 3:17), has always existed, that is not true of the matter of which the universe is made. Hence, when creating the literal heavens and earth, Jehovah did not use preexistent material. This is clear from Genesis 1:1, which says: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” If matter had always existed, it would have been inappropriate to use the term “beginning” with reference to material things. However, after creating the earth, God did form “from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens.” (Ge 2:19) He also formed man “out of dust from the ground,” blowing into his nostrils the breath of life so that the man became a living soul.—Ge 2:7.
Appropriately Psalm 33:6 says: “By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, and by the spirit of his mouth all their army.” While the earth was yet “formless and waste,” with “darkness upon the surface of the watery deep,” it was God’s active force that was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters. (Ge 1:2) Thus, God used his active force, or “spirit” (Heb., ruach), to accomplish his creative purpose. The things he has created testify not only to his power but also to his Godship. (Jer 10:12; Ro 1:19, 20) And, as Jehovah “is a God, not of disorder, but of peace” (1Co 14:33), his creative work is marked with orderliness rather than chaos or chance. Jehovah reminded Job that He had taken specific steps in founding the earth and barricading the sea and indicated that there exist “statutes of the heavens.” (Job 38:1, 4-11, 31-33) Furthermore, God’s creative and other works are perfect.—De 32:4; Ec 3:14.
Jehovah’s first creation was his “only-begotten Son” (Joh 3:16), “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Re 3:14) This one, “the firstborn of all creation,” was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, “the things visible and the things invisible.” (Col 1:15-17) John’s inspired testimony concerning this Son, the Word, is that “all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence,” and the apostle identifies the Word as Jesus Christ, who had become flesh. (Joh 1:1-4, 10, 14, 17) As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way,” and he tells of his association with God the Creator as Jehovah’s “master worker.” (Pr 8:12, 22-31) In view of the close association of Jehovah and his only-begotten Son in creative activity and because that Son is “the image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15; 2Co 4:4), it was evidently to His only-begotten Son and master worker that Jehovah spoke in saying, “Let us make man in our image.”—Ge 1:26.
After creating his only-begotten Son, Jehovah used him in bringing the heavenly angels into existence. This preceded the founding of the earth, as Jehovah revealed when questioning Job and asking him: “Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth . . . when the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause?” (Job 38:4-7) It was after the creation of these heavenly spirit creatures that the material heavens and earth and all elements were made, or brought into existence. And, since Jehovah is the one primarily responsible for all this creative work, it is ascribed to him.—Ne 9:6; Ps 136:1, 5-9.
The Scriptures, in stating, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Ge 1:1), leave matters indefinite as to time. This use of the term “beginning” is therefore unassailable, regardless of the age scientists may seek to attach to the earthly globe and to the various planets and other heavenly bodies. The actual time of creation of the material heavens and earth may have been billions of years ago.
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-Removed-There is one God [Yahweh] AND one Son of God [Jesus Christ] :
1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; AND one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, AND one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Notice the difference between us. I quote the Bible verbatim. It speaks for itself. The Bible does not need me to interpret. You on the other hand need to add your own version of the passage which has your particular twist to it.
Its the reason why so called Christians of your type have gone so far way from the truth as preached by Christ and the Apostles. You preach 3 Gods in one, you believe that all you need to do is to proclaim your faith in Christ and you will be saved and you cannot lose your salvation. You preach that works is of no value. Nothing of your doctrine is the truth as preached by Christ. The words of Christ is the truth and you and your type have perverted it. I hope you can handle the consequences...
1Tim 6:3-5 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
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I am a Christian. And to I God cearly is One. God is mentioned several times in the bible as the One and Only God. Not three in one, but one. God manifests Himself to us as the Father, and as the Holy Spirit, And He came as the Son of God to redeem us all. One of God's many names is Jesus. The name above all names!
Jhn 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
Jhn 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Jhn 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own [authority]; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
Jhn 14:11 "Believe Me that I [am] in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
Jhn 14:12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater [works] than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
Jesus was fully God but also fully human. How God came to this earth as a human to save us as the Son of God, and still be the Father God in heaven at the same time, I can't explain it to you. But with God ALL things are possible.
Scripture says God is spirit. So the Holy Spirit is clearly God.
God is One
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Originally posted by KingDavid403KingDavid,long time not see you around these parts. How have you been. I know we wont agree on this topic 🙂 ..
I am a Christian. And to I God cearly is One. God is mentioned several times in the bible as the One and Only God. Not three in one, but one. God manifests Himself to us as the Father, and as the Holy Spirit, And He came as the Son of God to redeem us all. One of God's many names is Jesus. The name above all names!
[b]Jhn 14:8 Philip said to Hi Scripture says God is spirit. So the Holy Spirit is clearly God.
[b]God is One[/b][/b]
That passage in John actually supports the idea that Christ and God are two separate and distinct entities.
I go to my Father / The Father is in Me / I am in the Father
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Paul is saying WE ARE ONE. Are we also one entity and one being because of our belief in Christ? We are all separate and distinct but what joins us is our belief and oneness of purpose if we believe in Christ. Its the same expression Christ used. He and God is one in purpose. They dwell within each other.
God dwells in Christ / Christ dwells in God / If we are baptised into Christ. Christ dwells in us.
Those passages cannot be misinterpreted to mean that God and Christ are one and the same being. It is clear that they are distinct and separate but one in purpose.
Consider these ... would you also conclude that God and Christ AND CHRISTIANS are ONE entity and ONE being?
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
1John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
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Originally posted by Rajk999Hey Rajk, God Bless you! Good to see you again also.
KingDavid,long time not see you around these parts. How have you been. I know we wont agree on this topic 🙂 ..
That passage in John actually supports the idea that Christ and God are two separate and distinct entities.
I go to my Father / The Father is in Me / I am in the Father
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, a ...[text shortened]... Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Yes we never have agreed on this subject in the past. So I'll just agree to disagree. To I it really doesn't matter that much. As long as you believe Jesus is lord and savior and the Son of God, and you call on Him to be saved you will be. The rest will all be made clear to us later.
And faith without works is dead faith. As also works without faith is dead. The two will go hand in hand. Will you stumble or fall? Most likely. But God will hold you up if you seek Him. Talk soon Rajk. 🙂
God Bless,
David
P.S. Remember to try and keep claim Rajk, I know it's very hard in this forums. 🙂
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Originally posted by KingDavid403LOL.. thanks for the keeping calm advice. Im trying to do that. Im just quoting what Christ and Paul and if they disagree, I just walk away.
Hey Rajk, God Bless you! Good to see you again also.
Yes we never have agreed on this subject in the past. So I'll just agree to disagree. To I it really doesn't matter that much. As long as you believe Jesus is lord and savior and the Son of God, and you call on Him to be saved you will be. The rest will all be made clear to us later.
And ...[text shortened]... David
P.S. Remember to try and keep claim Rajk, I know it's very hard in this forums. 🙂
And a definite YES to Christ is the Saviour and son of God who the Father. Yes again to faith and works going hand in hand. Both gives salvation. One alone is of no value.
However there are many who believe that if you dont have those 2 doctrines correct ie the Trinity and Faith alone saves (works being unnecessary], then you cannot get salvation.
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Originally posted by Rajk999However there are many who believe that if you dont have those 2 doctrines correct ie the Trinity and Faith alone saves (works being unnecessary], then you cannot get salvation.
LOL.. thanks for the keeping calm advice. Im trying to do that. Im just quoting what Christ and Paul and if they disagree, I just walk away.
And a definite YES to Christ is the Saviour and son of God who the Father. Yes again to faith and works going hand in hand. Both gives salvation. One alone is of no value.
However there are many who believe that ...[text shortened]... t ie the Trinity and Faith alone saves (works being unnecessary], then you cannot get salvation.
believe the trinty or else no salvation?? First, it's up to God about salvation. And you need to tell them that the trinty was not introduced to Christians until the rule of Constantine the great of Rome. Which was over 300 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus. There's also many who say the same thing about the oneness of God. If you don't believe in the oneness doctrine there's no salvation. I tell them the same thing. That's up to God. Not I or anyone else as a man.
Yes. If you have true faith, you will have works also. Niether by itself is anything. Some think you can work your way to heaven. And some think you can faith your way to heaven without any works. If you have faith you will have works also.
Jam 2:20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Jam 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works
Originally posted by KingDavid403Totally agree with everything you say. Many who call themselves Christians wont agree with you unfortunately.
[b]However there are many who believe that if you dont have those 2 doctrines correct ie the Trinity and Faith alone saves (works being unnecessary], then you cannot get salvation.
believe the trinty or else no salvation?? First, it's up to God about salvation. And you need to tell them that the trinty was not introduced to Christians until ...[text shortened]... rks." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works[/b][/b]
Originally posted by Rajk999If you are going to use the Hebrew "Yahweh" for God be consistent and
There is one God [Yahweh] AND one Son of God [Jesus Christ] :
1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; [b]AND one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, AND one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Notice the di ...[text shortened]... s, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.[/i][/b]
use the Hebrew "Yahshua" for the Son of God.
Originally posted by Rajk999You guys were doing just fine without my help, other than that.
Thanks .. it would be nice if you could manage to say something more substantial to contribute to the thread but no big deal ... 🙂
Keep up the good work. When you are finished here, I could use
your help on the "Evidence against Evolution" thread.