Biblical basis for the Trinity?

Originally posted by galveston75
I do totally trust in Jesus and what he has done and will do. But the Bible is also very specific in warning us to worship with truth. We cannot water that down and just accept even little untruths that do not agree with the Bible. If we allow those untruths to be a part of our worship than where do we draw the line doing that?

Lets be precise here becuase this is the crux of the teachings of Christ... worshipping in spirit and truth. I dont think you or the JWs are at liberty to define what that truth is. Christ said clearly that HE is the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by HIM. Christ was saying to us that following in HIS footsteps and carrying out HIS commandments and believing HIS doctrine .. that is TRUTH.

You are not a liberty to claim that you know and you can or you have interpreted the truth from the Bible .. because you cannot accomplish that.

The only truth thats important is the truth as spelt out by Christ. So ... do you believe and follow that truth?

Originally posted by galveston75
I do totally trust in Jesus and what he has done and will do. But the Bible is also very specific in warning us to worship with truth. We cannot water that down and just accept even little untruths that do not agree with the Bible. If we allow those untruths to be a part of our worship than where do we draw the line doing that?

The fact is neither you or I, or anyone knows all the exact truths of God. But we all claim to know, and say we're the way, or our sect is the way to Him.
Jesus is the way. And that's all God is going to clarify for us on this earth right now. The rest is nothing but false pride. I'm a oneness believer but I go to a trinty church. And for me to say I'm somehow closer to God or Jesus or above these people is upsurd. They love God aka Jesus just as much as I. And many have a much closer walk with Him than I do at present.
And as I said before I really don't think it matters as long as you keep your eyes on Jesus.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
The fact is neither you or I, or anyone knows all the exact truths of God. But we all claim to know, and say we're the way, or our sect is the way to Him.
Jesus is the way. And that's all God is going to clarify for us on this earth right now. The rest is nothing but false pride. I'm a oneness believer but I go to a trinty church. And for me t ...[text shortened]... nd as I said before I really don't think it matters as long as you keep your eyes on Jesus.

So you go to a trinitarian church but you don't agree with the teachings of that church and that's ok? Are you saying their teaching of the trinity is wrong in your eyes?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Lets be precise here becuase this is the crux of the teachings of Christ... worshipping in spirit and truth. I dont think you or the JWs are at liberty to define what that truth is. Christ said clearly that HE is the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by HIM. Christ was saying to us that following in HIS footsteps and carrying ...[text shortened]... hats important is the truth as spelt out by Christ. So ... do you believe and follow that truth?

That's why Jesus said you would know his people be by the fruits they produce. There are many, many religions out there and many, many individuals on their own out there all saying they follow Jesus's teachings. Many are very sincere about it as I truly believe you are. I'm not one to judge anyone including you as Jesus is the only judge at this time.
But the fruits any of us produce will show what Jesus was referring to.

Originally posted by galveston75
So you go to a trinitarian church but you don't agree with the teachings of that church and that's ok? Are you saying their teaching of the trinity is wrong in your eyes?

Our church really doesn't teach the trinty. I've been going there for a few years now and have never heard a trinty teaching. But that's what most believe there.

And to become a member until now you basically have to swear by the trinty. That's why were not members yet, but we're working with them to swear by Jesus and not the trinty and that will be happening within the next week or so.

Almost all the teachings and preaching is On Jesus and His love for us all and how to follow Him. And fellowshiping with others to strengthen ourselfs for dealing and coping with life. Plus other things of course, including teachings on the whole bible. It's a great church with several of Gods children attending.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
Our church really doesn't teach the trinty. I've been going there for a few years now and have never heard a trinty teaching. But that's what most believe there.

And to become a member until now you basically have to swear by the trinty. That's why were not members yet, but we're working with them to swear by Jesus and not the trinty and that wi ...[text shortened]... eachings on the whole bible. It's a great church with several of Gods children attending.

Just out of curiosity why do you need to swear? I thought Christ was clear on that point that swearing was not to be done .. instead let your Yes be yes and your No be no ... ??

Originally posted by KingDavid403
Our church really doesn't teach the trinty. I've been going there for a few years now and have never heard a trinty teaching. But that's what most believe there.

And to become a member until now you basically have to swear by the trinty. That's why were not members yet, but we're working with them to swear by Jesus and not the trinty and that wi ...[text shortened]... eachings on the whole bible. It's a great church with several of Gods children attending.

Thanks for your explination and yes the fellowshipping with others is very good and important in this world we live in today. But I'm still confused a little. So the church does follow the trinity belief even though some like yourself don't but many others there do? Does that not cause some divisions within the church at times? You say their changing this swearing in ceramony away from the trinity aspect and towards Jesus, but has that caused any problems as I'm sure the trinity is still an issue?

Originally posted by galveston75
That's why Jesus said you would know his people be by the fruits they produce. There are many, many religions out there and many, many individuals on their own out there all saying they follow Jesus's teachings. Many are very sincere about it as I truly believe you are. I'm not one to judge anyone including you as Jesus is the only judge at this time.
But the fruits any of us produce will show what Jesus was referring to.

Thats correct. The fruits referred to by Christ were those who followed his commandments .. those are the ones producing fruits. From what I have seen you write already, you/JWs seem to place emphasis on preaching house to house, as the sole yardstick of bearing fruit. That is definitely not what Christ said.

Those who follow Christ commandments and follow his doctrine are those bearing fruit.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thats correct. The fruits referred to by Christ were those who followed his commandments .. those are the ones producing fruits. From what I have seen you write already, you/JWs seem to place emphasis on preaching house to house, as the sole yardstick of bearing fruit. That is definitely not what Christ said.

Those who follow Christ commandments and follow his doctrine are those bearing fruit.

No your wrong on that point as there are many other factors in what Jesus was getting at when it comes to fruits. The way one lives his life and treats his neighbors as well as how one raises his offspring and even obeying laws of the land are only just a few of how one reflects that they follow Jesus. One would hope that by doing ALL the things Jesus told us to do it will produce good fruits and influance others to do the same.
But just think on what producing a Good Fruit really means. We have been given the assignment to sow the seeds of helping ones to know God and his son Jesus and what they are going to do for all of us in the future in making the earth a paradise that it once was. But we know not many will actually make it thru that narrow gate the Bible speaks of. Right?
So the seeds of spiritual knowledge have to be sown by us and doing what Jesus and his followers did as in going door to door to plant those seeds has to still be done. We have not been told by Jesus yet to not do that first step in the process of God making it grow if it is indeed found to be furtile. Do you disagree with that?

Originally posted by galveston75
Thanks for your explination and yes the fellowshipping with others is very good and important in this world we live in today. But I'm still confused a little. So the church does follow the trinity belief even though some like yourself don't but many others there do? Does that not cause some divisions within the church at times? You say their changing thi ...[text shortened]... nd towards Jesus, but has that caused any problems as I'm sure the trinity is still an issue?

No issue at all. Jesus and love is the main issue. There's no divisions so far and I really don't think there will be. I and my wife are the only Oneness believers that I know of in the church. But their trinty view is really so close to the oneness view it's almost funny. The main thing is we all worship Jesus. And that's all the others really care about also.
I'm sure alot of trinty churches would have issues with us swearing by Jesus and not the trinty. But our church does not.

Originally posted by galveston75
No your wrong on that point as there are many other factors in what Jesus was getting at when it comes to fruits. The way one lives his life and treats his neighbors as well as how one raises his offspring and even obeying laws of the land are only just a few of how one reflects that they follow Jesus. One would hope that by doing ALL the things Jesus to ...[text shortened]... he process of God making it grow if it is indeed found to be furtile. Do you disagree with that?

Well .. I wont call JW doctrine spiritual knowledge.

Originally posted by KingDavid403
No issue at all. Jesus and love is the main issue. There's no divisions so far and I really don't think there will be. I and my wife are the only Oneness believers that I know of in the church. But their trinty view is really so close to the oneness view it's almost funny. The main thing is we all worship Jesus. And that's all the others really ca ...[text shortened]... s would have issues with us swearing by Jesus and not the trinty. But our church does not.

Yes true love is a very important issue as Jesus clearly stated and demonstrated. But there are other points that he made clear that were important too and one was to have no divisions and to all be in full agreement on all issues. He stated that his followers would all be in full unity. So as long as the church there is following that then that's good and I hope it last.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well .. I wont call JW doctrine spiritual knowledge.

So do we do anything right in your eyes?

Originally posted by galveston75
So do we do anything right in your eyes?

I think I mentioned already that the JWs did. And its not in my eyes. You have to do what is right in the eyes of Christ. Christ, his doctrine, his example and his words, are easy to understand but very very difficult to follow.

A common way of dealing with difficult instructions is to do less of the difficult ones and more of the unimportant ones. Its a common human failing. I spent many years as a teacher and students when confronted with a difficult question will answer instead an easy version of what was asked. Now I am a small businessman and employees do exactly the same thing, and gravitate towards easier tasks hoping that the difficult ones will go away. Modern Christianity is the same thing. I was brought up a Christadelphian and they focus on Bible study rather than what Christ commanded. Bible study and attending church and doing the easy things is now a substitute for doing the things Christ commanded us to do. The JWs are no exception in this regard.

If we were to focus on accomplishing some of the more difficult commandments of Christ we can safely say that we have done our best. It is easy to say that we do not kill or steal or covet or lust, or that we pray or read the Bible etc etc.

How many Christians can honestly say that they routinely help the poor and needy and visit the sick and fatherless and widows and shown love for their enemies and do good to those who dispitefully use them. Its not an easy task. But going house to house is not a substitute for obeying the 'love thy neighbour as thyself' commandment.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think I mentioned already that the JWs did. And its not in my eyes. You have to do what is right in the eyes of Christ. Christ, his doctrine, his example and his words, are easy to understand but very very difficult to follow.

A common way of dealing with difficult instructions is to do less of the difficult ones and more of the unimportant ones. Its a ...[text shortened]... ouse to house is not a substitute for obeying the 'love thy neighbour as thyself' commandment.

Well according to scriptures that are there for all to read, we are doing what Jesus asked us to do. So I appreciate that your view for you is fine, but to say we are doing what Jesus said in scripture for all to see is wrong and a waist of time isn't a good thing to express in public I feel.
Your opinion is just that, your opinion, but to scoff which you do at times for our stand on this is wrong.
If you decide that is not what you feel you need to do then fine, but in the end we will all answer for all our actions.... Right?
Don't you think it's better to use those talents or abilities to our utmost is better for all involved then to say "I'll do some of the things Jesus said to do but I think I'll pass on one or two of them. What I'm doing will be enough." Is that a good viewpoint to have?
Anyway how did we get to this subject as this thread is about the trinity?